Nopretrib – Scott Pruitt’s Brotherly Hatred
I recently commented on Scott Pruitt’s site, “Nopretrib” in response to a person with the pseudonym LT 77. This was Scottie’s response.
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Scott Pruitt commented on Faithful Are The Wounds Of A Friend. in response to Tom Lessing: In response to LT77 You ought to know, as an illustrious Bible scholar and researcher, that doctrines are not always elucidated 100 % in a single passage or even an entire book. For instance, end-time prophecy was not explained to the prophet Daniel in perfect detail, using words and concepts that would only be revealed … Continue reading “Faithful Are The Wounds Of A Friend” Tom, under most circumstances I would no longer allow you to post comments on my blog. However, in this case, since your specific comments and arguments were challenged by another person, I thought it would be fair to give you an opportunity to respond. I’ve done that, while at the same time removing the link you left in your comment, going back to your website. Going forward as previously, your comments are not welcome here. Also, your argument about “ek” is fallacious. Ek is a preposition that denotes a point of origin. In the case you mentioned, the origin is “among the dead.” In the case of Rev 3:10, ek is referring to the time of testing, but the other word tereo means to “protectively guard over.” You’re focusing on the wrong word and at the same time making an invalid point. Forgive me for disallowing you to respond but you’re welcome to continue railing on your own website.
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Pruitt from Nopretrib says that the word “ek” (“ex” from which the English word “exit is derived) is a preposition that denotes a point of origin, and that’s it. What he, in point of fact, says is that the point of departure (let’s call it, point “A”) is the primary and sole determinative factor in the act of movement. In other words, point “A” does not in any which way possible suggest that a point “B” even exists, so that any movement from out of point A into point B may be accomplished.
“Ek,” therefore, alludes to a static “movement” (if ever there was such a thing) or no movement at all. To make his silly argument look even more insidiously stupid, he refers to my example of the resurrection of Jesus Christ from among the dead in which the words “ek nekros” describes an exit from among the dead into an environment among the living, he says that “ek” in this case also only describes the point of origin.
The magnanimous resurrection of Jesus Christ is not just, as Pruitt from the website Nopretrib suggests, a point of origin – and then “period.” His resurrection was a glorious out of movement from among the dead (leaving the rest of the dead in the place He entered after his death on the cross). It proves that the enemies of the Pretribulation Rapture will do anything to vilify Jesus’ promise in John 14, and even water down his resurrection completely from out of among the dead to merely a “point of origin” with no point of arrival somewhere else.
Pruitt and his Nopretrib continues to deride the Pretribulation Rapture and the resurrection of Jesus Christ with his equally insidious view of the word “tereo” which he interprets as a protection within a point of origin (in this case the seven-year tribulation) without leaving it to move to somewhere else other than the point of origin. The Greek says the following.”
Τηρήσω ἐκ τῆς ὥρας τοῦ which means, when translated literally, “will keep (protect) out of the hour of trial.” The protection (tereo) does not simply mean to protectively guard over someone in their state of origin or circumstances. The word “ek” clearly means to protect someone by removing them completely out of a situation or danger zone, assuring their safety 100%. Pruitt’s Post-tribulation Nopretrib nonsense does not allow for this kind of protection.
In fact, Jesus said:
“And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.” (Rev 13:7).
What kind of protection is this, Mr. Pruitt? Imagine Pruitt and his Nopretrib followers telling his fellow-Christ followers in the seven-year tribulation’s point of origin, “Don’t worry, the antichrist will not be able to kill you because God is going to protect you in the point of origin without having to remove you to another point of complete protection. And then, when the heads start rolling, the saints will probably say to Pruitt. “You have lied to us. Look at all our brothers and sister who have been slain by the antichrist. Is this the kind of protection you told us about? Shame on you, Pruitt.”
Pruitt from Nopretrib.com begs me to forgive him for not allowing me to comment on his Nopretrib blog and rather continue railing on our own site (Discerning the World). This is just another one of the enigmatic dichotomies Pruitt loves to disseminate among his equally deceived brothers and sister. He calls me a railer whilst he endearingly, lovingly, brotherly and sweetly embraces Jacob Prasch who railed at Deborah to the point where he is in danger of hell-fire. Read here. Nonetheless, this is what you usually may expect of hypocrites who refuse to remove the beam out of their own eyes whilst there may be a little mote in someone else’s’ eye.
To make Scott NoPreTrib Pruitt’s “point of origin” doctrine even clearer, let’s describe it with a little story. Imagine Scott and a friend attending a show at the London Palladium Theatre on Oxford Street, when a huge fire breaks out. His friend shouts, “We must move to the nearest exit to get out as soon as possible, lest we perish. There are nineteen exits. We can’t miss them.” Scottie then calmly says, “Don’t worry, those exits are merely points of origin and we are already in the point of origin, the Palladium Theatre. Don’t fret. The London Firebrigade will protect us.” This is the kind of warning the Pre-wrath and Post-trib protagonists are giving the saints. There is a divine exit available to them (the Pre-tribulation Rapture), but they refuse to acknowledge it.
Despite Scott Pruitt’s brotherly hatred of me and his robust, and thoroughly manly refusal to post my comments on his sight (which we can appreciate in the light of Jacob Prasch’s cowardly attacks on a woman), he does actually read my comments. Here’s the proof. Jippeeeee! Perhaps he is looking to find the truth after all.
Sadly, however, is his demure craftiness to keep the truth from his readers, especially from a person who calls him/herself LT77. Fortunately, I made a copy of my most recent response to LT77 rather puerile arguments.
| LT77 commented on Faithful Are The Wounds Of A Friend.
in response to Scott Pruitt: In answer to your question, I’m post-tribulational. However, I have an affinity with other premillennial believers that are pre-wrath because they still warn that the Church will go through the tribulation and face the Antichrist. I’m also going to allow Tom Lessing’s next comment, just remember, you asked for it. Scott, it is well appreciated. Thank you. I’m on the pre-wrath view. I call it a Post-trib (non-classical)/Pre-Wrath view. Tom, thanks for a respectable answer. Mathematics may be your easy cop-out tool, but let’s take it a step further. You seem to suggestively say man-made terms as scriptural. I find this problematic. Let me gives some examples. 1) “7 year tribulation”- This term is NEVER found in scripture. There IS however a 7 year end time period. Daniels 70th week is this 7 year period. Is this what you are referring to? If so, which I believe it is, can you substantiate with scripture this entire 7 year period as “Tribulation”? 2) “Time of Jacobs trouble”- Now THIS actually is found in scripture. But you interpret this INTO this man-made term of the “7 year Tribulation”. If you read the verse in context, it speaks of “that day”. Is “that day” equivalent to your 7 year tribulation? If so, how does that mathematically work? 3) “Tribulation Saints”- Again, non-existent in scripture. Another pre-trib man-made term. Are there any verses to substantiate this concept? 4) “Jews only-ism”- Again, another pre-trib man-made concept that doesn’t exist in scripture. Let’s break this down in numerous ways. Firstly, Simon the Canaanite, one of Christs disciples was NOT a Jew. Second, the audience of Jews present at the Olivet Discourse are ALSO the ones who were given the “great commission” to go out and preach to the world and establish the Church. Also when Jesus taught them communion at the last supper. Are those moments also for the Jews only? Third, Mark 13 makes a final statement in the Olivet Discourse of, “what I say unto you I say unto all, watch.” What Mark 13 does NOT say is, what I say unto you (Jews only), I say unto all (Jews only). What exactly does this statement mean in you interpretation? Fourth, if the unscriptural 7 year trib as you say is for the Jews only, what about ALL the millions upon millions upon millions of Jews that have died in the last 2000 years? Are they just out of luck? Only the Jews alive during the tribulation have the “refinement” grace period you speak of? Here’s the problem, the “Jews” living in 2018 as we speak, through the Holy Spirit can ACCEPT Christ as their Lord and Saviour! Some Jews today have already accepted Christ. Whosoever believeth is an open invitation for WHOSOEVER believes in Christ. 1 John 2:22 “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” Are these the Jews that are going to be “refined” in Zechariah? As for your final comments, you said, “you have a strange way of thinking that Gods judgments during the seven seals are merely temptations”. Well, I never said they were to begin with. But let’s analyze your own words. You said, “rider on a pale horse, billions of people are going to die”…Are you suggesting this is God pouring out His vengeance? If so, please explain. Is God or Christ ever associated with the pale horse? Through the first six Seals we are in Tribulation. Gods Wrath is NOT being poured out just yet. When billions are being killed, it is the AntiChrist that is doing this. Not God. Thx again Scott, and yes, I asked for it! |
Scott Pruitt who hates my guts will probably not post this comment. Nevertheless, if he refuses, I will post it on my site for you to read and learn the truth.
Mathematics is certainly not your best niche. I’m not surprised because Pre-wrath cronies don’t know how to count. I find it rather odd that you readily agree that the 70 weeks are years, which, if you calculate it correctly. are 490 years. You seem to think the weeks referred to in Daniel 9:24-27 are 7-day periods. Naughty, naughty! Even Scott Pruitt will be able to refute you on this. Now, if God who is omnipotent, and to whom a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years, is quite capable of using 7 days (a week) and change it into seven years, who are we to argue? The same argument applies to “day.” God is quite capable of using the term day not only as a 24-hour period but also as a longer period of time to express something unique He intends to do.
There are several passages in Scripture proving that the seven-year tribulation is indeed the time of Jacob’s Trouble, although many gentiles will also experience the time of his wrath. The prophecy in Daniel 9 clearly says: “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people [the Jews] and upon thy holy city [Jerusalem], to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.” (Daniel 9:24). What’s so difficult to understand about that?
If you want to deny that an omnipotent God can use whomsoever he wills, including Antichrist to execute his righteous judgments, then you must also deny that He used Pharaoh Thutmose II to oppress the Israelite, Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon to take into exile some of the Jews, and the Roman army under Titus to destroy Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD, God’s righteous judgments are often dispensed in giving his people what they want. Jesus said, “I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.” (John 5:43).
By the way, your inference that it is not God’s wrath but that of Antichrist robs Jesus of his worthiness to open the seven seals. (Revelation 5:4-5). Antichrist would never have been able to vent his hatred against the Jews and Gentiles during the seven-year tribulation if Jesus hadn’t been the only worthy One to open the seven seals. Or do you think Antichrist, Satan or anyone else is equally worthy? Moreover, the seven-year tribulation will be a time of severe divine judgment. Jesus said, “For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.” (John 5:22). Antichrist will be the instrument He uses to judge the world and the nations.
Your argument under point 4 is puerile. You cannot assume that because so and so were not Jews at venues and instances so and so, that the tribulation cannot be a time of Jacob’s Trouble. Don’t you understand the Gospel for the Gentiles? Read Romans 8:11-15. Surely you must know what that means. It means that God has put the last seven years of the 490 years on hold before He once again deals with Israel, so that He may save the Gentiles. (2 Peter 3:9).
Does the raptured Church return with Christ at His Second Coming?
Hi Marie
Here is an excerpt from an article I wrote some time ago. You can read it here.
Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished, and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. (Zechariah 14:1-5).
Verse 5 echoes the prophecy Enoch proclaimed in Jude 1:14, “Behold, the Lord cometh with (accompanied by) ten thousands of his saints,” It very clearly suggests that the saints who return with Him to the earth must have left the earth with Him sometime earlier.
Are there any other passages in Scripture that support the return of his saints (the church) with Him to the earth at his Second Advent at the end of the seven-year tribulation?
According to Revelation 19:7 the Marriage of the Lamb will already have been a fait accompli when Christ Jesus returns to earth at his Second Advent. The word “erchomai” (is come) denotes something that has already taken place.
The word, when it is used in conjunction with people, does not mean that something is about to occur or in the process of taking place; it means that something which has already taken place, has come from one place to another, in this case, the marriage of the Lamb which will have come from heaven to the earth.
It indicates that the Marriage of the Lamb will already have been consummated in heaven when Jesus Christ returns to earth with his bride to appear in the public eye of those who will have survived the Holocaust during the Great Tribulation. Verse 8 of Revelation 19 proves this in saying “And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.”
She (the Bride) will be adorned with fine linen, clean and white, which are the righteous deeds of the saints when she returns with her Bridegroom at his Second Coming at the end of the Great Tribulation, just prior to the inauguration of the Millennium of peace on earth.
The fine, clean and white linen garments, as we’ve seen, refer to the saints’ righteous deeds. There is only one way to determine whether the deeds of the saints are righteous and acceptable to the Lord, and that is the judgment seat of Christ called the Bema Seat judgment which will occur after the Rapture in heaven.
Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:13-15).
Indeed, the Bema Throne Judgment will occur in heaven prior to the Marriage of the Lamb so that when the Bride returns with her Bridegroom from heaven to the earth she will already be arrayed in clean and white linen garments.
Revelation 19:14 confirms this in saying: “And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.” Some say that the armies are angels. It cannot be angels because they are not going to be arrayed with fine, clean and white linen garments (righteous deeds) because there is no need for God’s angels to be judged at the Bema Throne Judgement Seat.
There are two very important passages in Scripture that are absolutely essential for a correct understanding of the Rapture. They are Luke 12:35-36 and Revelation 19:7-9
Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. (Luke 12:35-36).
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. (Revelation 19:7-9)
Does he honestly think the antichrist can do anything without God allowing him too? Unbelievable… :dazed:
Nopretrib and crew have created an entire new doctrine: antichrist (pale horse) opens first seal (that only Jesus Christ can open) and antichrist judges the world, God has nothing to do with it – it’s not His judgement or vengence on the world, the labour has not started, still in labour pains during 1st 3.5 years according to Nopretrib. THEN God puts antichrist on the back seat during 2nd 3.5 years, the pale horse vanishes into think air (he doesn’t continue to act out) and God now takes over and does the judging. :dazed:
Oh gosh… I am speechless.
Does Scott Pruitt believe he is part of Israel? Is THIS why he is so terribly confused? :Iknow: I’m wondering now :thinking: because he and Jacob Prasch who is Hebrew Roots are pals… birds of a feather ALWAYS flock together.
LT again. If comments are still acceptable of course. :gollygee:
To Deborah, you have seemingly gone off the deep end again with my comments. I’ll help clear up the air.
1) The AntiChrist can only be made known when God allows it. Does this help wash away your false dichotomy of my comments? I hope so.
2) Maybe the “Nopretrib crew” said something about the Antichrist opening the first Seal, but I’ll clear up your confusion with me on this one. ONLY Jesus is worthy to open the Seals. Does this help? (Repeated point). Just hoping you aren’t left speechless for some odd misconstruing reason.
3) If you’ve never compared the 7 Trumpets and 7 Vials together, I think it would help out here a tad more. Earth being scorched with heat. Rivers and water turned to blood. And so on. Looking at the 7 Seals, those comparisons do NOT exist. In fact, we see before the 7th Seal is opened the angels are told NOT to hurt the earth, or grass or trees and on. It’s easy to overlook for sure, but it’s there to read. :head scratcher indeed:
4) Just how many Raptures and Second Comings do you two believe in? Some false deceptive pre-tribbers believe in 7 Raptures and 3 separate Comings. Curious which group y’all align with.
5) Do y’all believe 1 Thess 4:13-18 is the Rapture? If so, :chuckles:, do you NOT see the verse that says, “coming of the Lord”? :laugh:
Anywho, since my name was posted with this post, I figured I’d chime in for additional help to clear your confusion. I’ll copy my comment and post it to the other guys page since you mostly delete my comments. K thx.
LT77
Thanks so much for the helpful response!!
Thanks for conceding that Jesus Christ is the only One worthy to open the seven seals and thus making Him the ONLY One who loosens the Antichrist to execute God’s judgments on earth. Would you agree that the Antichrist could never appear on the world scene to do his damndest if Jesus Chris had NOT opened the seals? It follows that Jesus is the one who pours out the judgments (wrath) on earth The Notrib bunch never once suggested that the Antichrist was the one worthy to open the seven seals. You are the culprit who is suggesting such a blasphemous thing by asserting that it is the Antichrist’s wrath and not God’s. The number seven alone proves that it must be God’s wrath because neither man nor Satan or Antichrist are ever represented by the number seven (completeness, perfection).
You make such a big fuss of the seven trumpets and vials being the only instances of God’s wrath because of the great cataclysmic horrors in nature. You conveniently forget that in the fourth seal one-fourth of the world’s population will be killed by, among other things, wild beasts (Revelation 6:7-8). Is the Antichrist going to say to the wild animals “KILL!” Will he have the power to give wild animals such a command? Ezekiel 5:15-17 clearly confirms that God sends famine, ferocious beasts pestilence, and the sword to execute his righteous judgments and wrath.
You are the one who’s gone off the deep end, not knowing or understanding the Word of God. You are the one who does not see and understand “coming of the Lord.” There is a “coming of the Lord” FOR his own (his bride) in the air (not the earth), and “the coming of the Lord WITH his own to the earth to set up his 1000 years Kingdom of peace on earth. I am not going to give you the Scriptures to prove it because you won’t believe it in any case.
You say you will also post your comment on Nopretrib because we mostly delete your comments. Liar! Notrib is the ones who always delete my (Tom Lessing’s) comments. However, keep on coming back to our site because here, at least, you will hear the biblical truth of the Rapture, and perhaps, although there is a huge chance that you won’t, you may just repent of your evil lies about the Rapture.
Hi Tom, LT again.
Firstly, the scriptures teach that Christ IS Worthy to open to Seals. The “concession” made here is on your behalf, in that you deceptively accused me of suggesting otherwise. Apology accepted.
Second, since the Tribulation does NOT last 7 years as you assert without ANY biblical foundation, it is simple to see why you believe Gods Wrath is being poured out via the Antichrist. Can you cite a verse or two? Or a dozen? It would help. The Antichrist attempting to take over the world and use the mark of the beast is NOT God punishing the earth and mankind’s wickedness. What an EVIL God you worship Tom. How blasphemous of a teaching you believe that God is working hand in hand with the Antichrist to help God torture mankind. How Satanic are you Tom?
Third, Ezekiel 5:15-17 has NOTHING to do with Revelation 6. Just another FRUITLESS ripping of an Old Testament verse out of context to fit this Satanic agenda you ascribe to. Atrocious rendering of scripture. {Oh look, I found a word “pestilence”…wowsers, it must be talking about Rev 6 now. Fantastic.}
Fourth, so you believe in TWO separate Second Comings huh Tom? :laugh: Blah blah FOR his saints, blah blah WITH his saints…..TWO separate Comings is pre-Trib belief that makes a MOCKERY of this deception. That’s right Tom, don’t waste your time ripping verses out of context for THIS Satanic teaching.
Fifth, you called me a liar? Oh geez…you’ve deleted multiple comments of mine. This one probably also. {I’ll copy and paste to your hated friends page if need be, no worries}.
Sixth, NOW I need to repent about the Rapture?!? Tom Tom Tom…STEP AWAY from this worthless false gospel. You ALREADY preach a works based salvation false gospel from Rev 3:10, you know, “because they hast kept the word of my patience”….
REALLY Tom? So NOWWWW we have to keep the word and work for it?? It was FINISHED on the Cross?
Here’s the REALITY Tom, you are helping aid Satan by prepping these Belivers in Christ to be ready FOR the Antichrist and ACCEPTING him as the Coming Messiah (typical Jews onlyism nonsense). While you say Christ is coming at any moment, it is actually the Antichrist who is coming first.
Matthew 24:29 “Immediately AFTER the Tribulation”….is when the Rapture happens.
Cheers to hoping I addressed everything 🙂
LT, You have addressed nothing, Zilch, Nada, Zero. Your eisegeses/exegesis is so flawed, even a child can see through it. Your puerile argument that this word or that word does not appear in this or that passage and therefore you cannot use it to prove anything is just so anti-God and anti-Bible, it does not even deserve to be debated. You say, “Ezekiel 5:15-17 has NOTHING to do with Revelation 6. Just another FRUITLESS ripping of an Old Testament verse out of context to fit this Satanic agenda you ascribe to. Atrocious rendering of scripture. {Oh look, I found a word “pestilence”…wowsers, it must be talking about Rev 6 now. Fantastic.}” I suppose you will also say that Isaiah 53 has nothing to do with Christ’s crucifixion because that too would be something satanic to do. Have you never heard that Scripture explains Scripture and that one needs to read the entire Word of God to understand God’s dealings with mankind? Your attack on Jesus’ promise by associating it with Satan, is very dangerous.
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20) Go and spew out your hatred on Scott Pruitt’s site. He enjoys to be hateful. You are wasting my time.
Answer me this: Where does the word “harpazo” (to catch up), the word usually used for “rapture” appear in Matthew 24 29 and thereafter? Where does it speak of “in the twinkling of an eye.” You ought to know by now that when certain words do not appear in passages, they cannot be used to verify certain truths.
I suggest you go back to school to learn what the word “week” means so that you also may start to learn what the word “seven” means. Remember 70 X 7? 69 weeks have already been fulfilled to the letter. and therefore the last week (Jacob’s trouble; seven-year tribulation) must also be fulfilled to the very letter.
Oh what a laugh, I knew it was you LT. Goodness…what a laugh I had. But shoeeii you are getting angry and your reasoning is becoming very irrational. Anyhow… back to the nitty gritty of your beliefs.
You said “The Antichrist attempting to take over the world and use the mark of the beast is NOT God punishing the earth and mankind’s wickedness. What an EVIL God you worship Tom. How blasphemous of a teaching you believe that God is working hand in hand with the Antichrist…?”
So God doesn’t send people to hell? He doesn’t punish people for their sin, He never judges anyone and sends them to burn everlasting in hell – because as we ALL know Satan tempts people to follow their wicked hearts, just as Satan had the audacity to tempted Jesus Christ Himself on the mountain (Matthew 4:1-11) and yes LT just in case you say it because based on your current reasoning, you just might say it, we KNOW Jesus WAS, IS sinless and would never have fallen for Satan’s evil tempting, but mankind on the other hand does, because man’s heart is wicked (Jeremiah 17:9). So LT, are you saying God has never used wicked people in the bible to bring about judgement on other people? A point in case: LT you should read Habakkuk 1:1-12 where God uses Babylon to punish Judah. God is not working with them! God is pure, holy and just – He ordained, He appointed Babylon to bring judgment on Judah and in Habakkuk 1:14-17 the impending judgment of Babylon will be severe and widespread on Judah!.
Now the next LOGICAL question needs to be asked regarding your beliefs: What kinda of a universal ‘god’ do you follow LT that God would NEVER punish anyone for their wicked ways??
You claim that the antichrist does the judging the first half of the trib and then somehow the antichrist vanishes into thin air the second half and God alone meters out his judgement. Tell me where do the false prophet and the antichrist go the 2nd half, after he has set himself up in the temple? Don’t tell me he has an underground bunker and he hunkers down the remaining years with the false prophet?
Tell me LT are you Catholic? You see it’s one thing to just state what you believe regarding there being a pre-trib rapture or no pre-trib rapture, but what else do you believe LT? As you know there are Hindu gurus (posing a Christians) who believe there is no pre-trib rapture among the horde of false teachers who are no-pretribbbers, just as there are many a false teacher who claim there will be a pre-trib rapture. The question is LT what else do you believe?
Our beliefs are plain for all to see, you on the other hand…yours are hidden, but they are starting to show themselves, the cracks are widening… 🙂
How much hatred will you and the rest of preppers who lack faith show towards Jesus Christ because He left you behind? Just a thought… :thinking:
You said “Fifth, you called me a liar? Oh geez…you’ve deleted multiple comments of mine. This one probably also. {I’ll copy and paste to your hated friends page if need be, no worries}.” and then you said “Anywho, since my name was posted with this post, I figured I’d chime in for additional help to clear your confusion. I’ll copy my comment and post it to the other guys page since you mostly delete my comments. K thx.”
Shoee, we mostly delete your comments…? Um, no, LT, you are indeed exposing yourself to be a liar. Firstly, not multiple, only twice. We allowed you 20 comments, deleted 2, plus the 2 latest ones of yours we posted – that’s 22 comments, and then you said:
So we did have the last word. Make sure you copy and paste this whole comment plus your comment to wherever you wanna paste it, ok?
You said “Cheers to hoping I addressed everything :)”
Oh no no, we have just gotten started. Where do you preach, what church? Do you go around to churches preaching against the pre-trib rapture? 🙂 Come on you can tell us… Come now be open and honest. Roman Catholic eh? What you gonna do LT, run or stay and chat about what you REALLY believe.
Hi again Deborah, thx for the comment.
Firstly, I am not a Catholic. Never have been. Curious where that came from? I attend a black Baptist church. I preach there once a month and twice a month I hold a bible study for an hour on FB Live. One is a regular teaching. The other is strictly Revelation. But on the overall, above the “Baptist” heading, I am a Believer in Christ. Did I miss anything? Oh, I’m also strictly KJV if that helps ya out.
Now, to your first few points. Yes, I agree with the scriptures. God will send people to hell. Yes, God can use evil people to do things. Just as your example suggests. The BIG difference of course, is that the Antichrist will be killing as many Christians as possible because of his hatred for those who follow God. That IS NOT God punishing wickedness. Let me reiterate for Tom also. Christians being martyred or killed or persecuted, IS NOT God punishing wickedness. Sounds counter-intuitive at best.
Yes, I said have the last word, AFTER Deborah asked me to move on. Followed by deleting of my comment. Let’s just stick to yalls false doctrine.
You asked, how much hate will I have if I’m left behind? NONE!!! I’m READY for the Trib and short period of Great Trib. No matter WHAT the situation may be I’m always ready to be a witness for the name of Jesus Christ!
What exactly are you prepped and watching for? Clouds? That’s it? You’ve prepped for an escape from persecution? Well, good for y’all. Not for me though. Sounds like yet another false gospel.
As for Tom, brother you bring NOTHING new to the table man. Multiple Rapture, TWO separate Comings (hahahhah), false works based salvation teachings, false teachings about the Jews NOT being Saved by Faith through grace-but being Saved when Jesus refines them in the Tribulation? Like WHAT?!?
Faith didn’t come by hearing for them Tom? Only the visualization of Christ in the Tribulation can save the Jews through Toms eyes wide shut belief system?
Have you ever wondered Tom, why Matthew 24:21-22 speaks of the “Great Trib” and the “elect” (as you say this is the Jews only), and how Rev 7 speaks of the “those who came out of Great Trib, and THAT group was a great multitude of ALL nations, ALL kindreds, ALL tongues?!? This must be a theological disaster for you Tom.
I’ve asked more than enough questions that repeatedly get ignored Tom. Basic fundamental questions. I can’t answer them for you. Sorry Deborah, there isn’t much to run away from here. It’s your site. Questions have been ASKED. If y’all refuse to answer, I can’t help that.
Did i miss anything? I’m not a Hindu or guru or whatever you asked.
What are my beliefs? Matthew 24:29-31 tells us Immediately AFTER the Tribulation that the four cosmic disturbances happen. THEN Christ comes in the clouds at the Rapture. And the ONLY reference to the four cosmic disturbances in Revelation is at the 6th Seal at Rev 6:12-17. What should we expect to follow this? The Rapture! Which we see in Rev 7:9.
Still laughing Deborah?
Thx
LT, the great scholar who knows everything, wrote:
Now, to your first few points. Yes, I agree with the scriptures. God will send people to hell. Yes, God can use evil people to do things. Just as your example suggests. The BIG difference of course, is that the Antichrist will be killing as many Christians as possible because of his hatred for those who follow God. That IS NOT God punishing wickedness. Let me reiterate for Tom also. Christians being martyred or killed or persecuted, IS NOT God punishing wickedness. Sounds counter-intuitive at best.
Answer me this; Did God kill Ananias and Saphira or was it, Peter who killed them?
Did God kill Moses, or was it the devil who killed him?
All three of them did something wicked, didn`t they?
You are the one not answering our questions. I asked you where the word `harpazo` (the word used for `catching up` appears in Matthew 24:29-31. You refuse to answer because you have no biblical answer.
You wrote:
What exactly are you prepped and watching for? Clouds? That’s it? You’ve prepped for an escape from persecution? Well, good for y’all. Not for me though. Sounds like yet another false gospel.
You are being boastful and proud of your so-called macho Christianity. Who says you are going to remain faithful to Jesus when martyred? Those who boast are usually the first ones who fail to remain faithful to Him. Why do you want to be martyred? What purpose is there in your being martyred during the tribulation under Antichrist? Is it going to purify you, and from what?
LT
I am still laughing because dear LT I’m on your facebook page [Link removed – This was a PUBLIC PROFILE of LT on facebook] with a picture of you in a Catholic Church with a gigantic CRUCIFIX in the background and you are standing in front of the church in a lovely picture where a child had her first CATHOLIC communion looking all prim and proper between mother and father; and you are so happy about this and state: “[Name Removed] had her first Communion!” (Please note I had to edit this due to this comment by LT threatening us) claiming we are pedophiles – It seems this ‘LT’ person (nopretrib.com) will go to any lengths to lie about us in the most disgusting ways possible to cover up that fact that we showed him as being a loving Catholic.)
And it’s your facebook page because you have a link to the video of the African Baptist church you attend.
Also you are on https://www.facebook.com/groups/prewrathraptureview and I just scrolled through a few comments, but came upon this little gem – it’s typical catholic dogma where YOU ASK THE QUESTION to the FB group and then give your Roman Catholic answer:
(Please note: comment below shortened, you can search for the actual comment here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/prewrathraptureview by searching the following “Revelation 12, the Woman….” in the ‘search this group’ box on the right hand side
Tom’s comment to this is:
Let me not even get started on the Serpent seed teaching that the Catholic church and the Apostolic and Prophetic bunch (and a whole horde of other heretics) believe in based on the twisted abuse of Gen 3:15.
It shows you just how easy Scott Pruitt draws all kinds of heresies to his own site because all they have to do is just agree with his no-rapture nonsense.
Why do you use LT and LT77 to comment on others pages but on FB you use your real name? Got something to hide? Like being an undercover catholic?
LT, please don’t try try fool me, for I am no-ones fool. I saw your underhanded beliefs long ago… I gave you enough rope and you did the rest.
Now you can go back to Scott Pruitt’s ‘nopretrib.com’ page and you and him can go bowling together. 🙂
Bye bye now…no really…you can go…you are blocked – copy and paste this comment to wherrrreeeeee-everrrrrrr you want to.
[EDITED – Unblocked LT do to his incessant complaining that he wants to comment.]
Someone once said, `Turning rocks is a dangerous thing. It may be the hiding place of scorpions or snakes.` I never knew Facebook could be turned into a rock.
Created a new FB page with pictures of both of you! Heretic pre-tribbers delight. When your bff Prasch called Deborah a psychotic nutbag….man he PEGGED you like a bullseye on a dart board :giggles:
Listed are 12 false doctrines I’ve collected like garbage in these :chuckles: conversations. Stay tuned. Combing for more. Last two comments copied and pasted :oh shucks:
LT ~mic dropped~
LT
Oh golly gosh, wouldn’t have expected anything less from you LT. Amazing how I am always a “psychotic nutbag” etc, etc, etc. You must have learnt how to insult people from your new friend Jacob Prasch or it’s just your personality/character showing through, no help from Prasch needed.
The names that I get called, how I am personally attacked, for exposing you guys out on your false doctrine is unbelievable. Have I called you any names? Insulted you? Personally attacked you? But I really didn’t expect anything less from you LT….really. Please do give us the honors of knowing this Facebook page name will you?
The bible did say after all in Matthew 5:11 “Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.”
You might say you are Baptist but your doctrine proves you are Catholic.
again.
I thought I was blocked?!? How suddenly Deborah plays the “victim” card. If you can’t debate your stance and preach multiple false gospel, then that would make sense why you use endless straw man illogical arguments.
Posting a Link with a picture of my daughter without express written consent is violating the terms you agreed to using [Removed] as your domain. I’ve contacted them to have it removed. I do not trust your motives posting pictures of children but I’ll assume the worst with the intent. Tom Lessing (minus the B) and Deborah Du Rand I sure hope you aren’t mixed up with Pedophilia (presumably). That’s a Rock (millstone) tied around your neck (not with rope).
Yalls bff warmed me about you two. I didn’t realize posting child pics was the depth you would sink when discussing the Pre-Trib Delusion. “Be instant in season”….and ready to post child pictures to reprove and rebuke doesn’t have a “victim” RING to it.
Blessed are you, when men shall post pictures of your children and persecute you when their deception gets exposed. Sound about right Deborah? Is this standard typical protocol when discussing scripture to post children’s pictures? Are you an undercover Pedophile Deborah? Don’t run and hide Tom. Let it come to light.
{This will be copied and pasted on the page for all to see}
*LT-pew-pew-pew*
———–
[Note added by DTW, 3 Aug 2018: LT never contact Discerning the World first via email (as per the law) to remove the link to his Facebook Page before contacting our hosting provider to complain. We have immediately removed the link to his facebook page (after this comment to us) showing him to be a loving Catholic family member who is now defaming us on Facebook
Please note: we wont complain about LT and use the law as LT has done regarding his disgusting lying false accusations – we leave it all in God’s hands.
We forgive LT for what he has done and is currently doing.]
LT
You said: “Tom Lessing (minus the B) and Deborah Du Rand I sure hope you aren’t mixed up with Pedophilia (presumably)?”
You are truly sicker than I thought possible. I have removed the LINK to YOUR PUBLIC FACEBOOK PROFILE.
Please make sure you post links for each and every single comment to this Facebook/Website page you have created of us – where you are defaming us in the most terrible of ways – evil has no bounds with you it seems!
We won’t approach FB or whatever Hosting server to close down this disgusting page you have created, full of twisted disgusting lies. The fact that your mind can even stoop this low, the bottom of the sludge barrel, is truly astounding.
When Jacob Prasch created a website on me filled with utter lies and defamed me and insulted me, and said things I never ever said; I never contacted the service provider to complain (as we follow: I Cor. 6:1-8; Eph. 4:31,32.), that website stood for exactly 2 years until he took it down. I will do the same for you LT, I leave it all in the highest place of all, God’s hands and let HIM deal with this.
If someone out there comes to realise that Pre-Trib is genuine gospel all because of your evil intentions, I will rejoice! This is what happened to Jacob Prasch; all through the 2 years of him defaming me through that website people came to realize he was not a man of God and turned their back on him and his false gospel. I suffered greatly during this time, but when I realised what was happening, how people’s eyes were being opened to the gospel truth because of his actions against me, I was very relieved, and God gave me so much peace. The same will happen with this website you have created, because of your evil mind, people will come to know that the pre-trib rapture is true and biblical in all it’s glory.
Satan’s attack on the Pre-Trib Rapture is so intense in these last days. Satan will do anything (as can be seen through LT’s wickedness) to change a Christians Biblical worldview entirely… and steal them from the glorious Blessed Hope, the mystery of the `harpazo` – the word used for `catching up` in Matthew 24:29-31, given to the Apostle Paul in the New Testament.
Posted this to Scott Pritt’s website nopretrib.com as he is the one that sent LT to come and rile over here, not sure if this will be posted so I am making a copy for here – see snapshot.
Here is the copy and paste of the above snapshot:
xLTx
Thank you for removing the picture of my daughter. It was highly inappropriate and glad the intent isn’t as bad as I originally presumed.
I didn’t waste my time creating a page about your false teaching of the pre-Trib rapture. I spend my time Preaching against this false deception hoping to sound the alarm and be ready for persecution. Not escaping. If you can’t debate with scriptures Deborah, I’d suggest not debating at all. Keep in touch eh 🙂
^LT^
LT
1) So you lied again and never emailed our service provider? No wonder I didn’t get an email from them.
2) You lied again, that you never actually were creating a website of us being pedophiles, etc, etc, etc.
3) You said “glad the intent isn’t as bad as I originally presumed.” You are sick. You know FULLY well we were posting a LINK to a picture of you in a Catholic church commending your daughter on her first CATHOLIC communion. What kind of a so called Christian father would be happy that his daughter is baptised into Babylon, so happy in fact he broadcasts it publicly on Facebook.
4) “Thank you for removing the picture of my daughter.” It was a LINK to your PUBLIC FACEBOOK PAGE – if you don’t want people to see your daughter, make your pictures private! Once again the intent was to prove you are Catholic, which we did.
You turned this into something utterly disgusting. I ponder what goes on in your mind. We are not debating you anymore, I am not wasting my time with someone so evil.
You said “Keep in touch eh“,
Well I’ve left you in God’s hands, you clearly need His help.
Matthew 15:8 “This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.”
Well I did receive a reply email from someone who’s initials are S. P. who has threatened us with legal action as well, especially if I post his disgusting email to me – apparently ‘LT’ fever is catching on… Funny though, they can post open letters ‘CRITIQUING’ The Berean Call – but let someone judge his doctrine on their own website and now he starts threatening us with legal action? Hypocrisy at best. This truly is the last of the last days.
Clearly these guys ‘hate us with a passion’ and don’t understand scripture:
He will actually use the New World Order Law of us actually ‘inciting hate speech’ against him. I wish I was joking. Do I smell the first ever uprising of the coming army of ‘Christian’ jihadists? I sincerely hope not.
He clearly sees all of us, all, pretribbers as unbelievers. Now we pose the question, how would he and crew know if we are saved or not? Is he the judge on our salvation too now? You know… I’m beginning to also smell the bad odour of Calvinism in this entire saga. LT does after all claim he is Baptist. :thinking:
BUT as we know, it’s not just pre-trib rapture that’s at issue here, it’s their ENTIRE BIBLICAL WORLD VIEW that’s the issue here, hence they attack the Pre-Trib Rapture so ferociously – snatching believers out of the body of Christ. So what doctrine do these people follow? Roman Catholicism, all their little steams of doctrine that make up their so called ‘Biblical’ World View leads back to Rome!
They embrace LT, the Catholic family man, who hates the Pre-Trib Rapture as much as the Satan does.
Hi Deborah,
I suggest that we ignore LT77’s, or whatever, and Scott Pruitt’s and Jacob Prasch’s threats. However, it is our duty to contend for the faith and expose their lies in public. And that we shall do until our dying day, threats or no threats. I have come to realize that their hatred of Jesus Christ’s return at the Pretribulation Rapture is so fierce, that their blindness seems to be God’s way of judging them. Paul Benson oozes the very same hatred, not of us, but of Jesus Christ Himself and his return at the Pre-trib Rapture. They are all playing with fire.
Hi Tom
You said “However, it is our duty to contend for the faith and expose their lies in public. And that we shall do until our dying day, threats or no threats.” and “Paul Benson oozes the very same hatred, not of us, but of Jesus Christ Himself”
Indeed. And no one ever said there will be no tribulation (persecution of believers) before the Tribulation starts, there has been persecution of believers in the most horrendous ways the last 2000+ years, and it’s escalating again at a rapid pace. And I’ll be the first one to say, it’s scary.
These people who want to die for Christ, they have a death wish. They need to prove their ‘salvation’ by dying – it’s their only means of purification (so they think), because their hearts have not been purified by the blood of Jesus Christ. This is where this ‘purification’ theology comes from, the SDA have the same beliefs – that the church has to be purified in the last days – They reject Jesus Christ’s shedding of His blood for them, that’s why they, WANT TO, HAVE TO shed their own. A Satanic deception of epic proportions.
In fact the very occult vision by Magret McDonald who they use against Pre-Tribbers contains this very FALSE PURIFICATION doctrine all NON PreTribbers believe in!
We carry on our task given to us and all genuine Christians, to content for the Gospel.
LT wrote:
“Tom Lessing (minus the B) and Deborah Du Rand I sure hope you aren’t mixed up with Pedophilia (presumably)?”
Apart from the fact that he is disobeying God and bearing false witness (Proverbs 12:17; 14:5; 19:5, 9; 21:28; 25:18; Matthew 15:19), he allowed his daughter to be baptized in a church that is swamped with pedophiles. Here’s the proof, and by the way it is verified by true and not false witnesses like Mr. LT.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases
My advice to Scott Pruitt is to withdraw himself from LT (2 Thessalonians 3:6). However, I doubt whether he would heed Paul’s caution because they are brothers in arms in their hatred of the Pre-trib Rapture. Scott Pruitt is one who likes to associate with false witnesses and then to put the blame on the victims of their foul false witnessing. He repeatedly accuses me of ad hominem attacks and slandering whilst he merrily associates with his partner in arms against the Pre-trib Rapture – the honorable Jacob Prasch, who to this date has not apologized to Deborah for his vicious satanic ad hominem attacks on her that lasted 2 solid years.
If I or Deborah accused either LT, Scott Pruitt or Jacob Prasch of pedophilia (presumably, because we would never be so desperately deranged to do such a thing), they would immediately file a lawsuit against us. It’s despicable, to say the least.
LT has the nerve to say on Scott Pruitt’s site, “On Toms page, he has a callous tone and snarky attitude” and yet he has the nerve to accuse Deborah and me of pedophilia (presumably). This is so typical of those who hate the Pre-trib rapture. They love to remove the mote out of your eye whilst the beam is in their own.
Who or what is ‘LT’ anyway? It’s just a fake name. LT could be 1 of a few hundred different people or terminologies even, from ‘LT’ as in Lieutenant, or ‘.lt’ for Luthuania, or ‘LT’ used on Facebook chats for “Love(d) This/That”. So many LT’s and variants thereof out there. Like LT77 could be LT77 Ashcroft Transmissions, or a Land Rover LT77, So who cares? I don’t. Moved on. 🙂
[DELETED by DTW – Frank or LT / LT77. You come here using another name..like really? Can’t stop lying can you. Are you ever convicted by the Holy Spirit regarding your habitual lying? It appears nopretribbers just can’t stop lying. Please go elsewhere. No really. Please. You are embarrassing yourself. PS: You don’t even understand your own false ‘doctrine of purification’.]
Frank
I have a few questions for you. Do you think it is necessary for the Body of Christ (true Church) to be purified, and if so, what must she be purified of?
Were the persecutions in the past the means God used to purify the church? What do you think the real reason is why the church has been persecuted since her inception?
The word “purified” appears three times and the word “purify” only four times in the New Testament and never once in connection with persecution. Why is that?
As soon as you’ve answered these questions, I shall tell you why Deborah said the things you don’t like.
Anyone else (besides LT and any other name he can come up with) out there that can answer Tom’s questions?
And you wont believe it but LT’s back again…under another name: See comment here. Remember when I said I smelt the bad odour of Calvinism in the air…how right I was.
The prewrath Camp has a fundamental problem understanding God’s sovereignty in the seals, and how He uses different instruments to administer His wrath.