IMMORTALITY
Immortal Life … Can it be?
Somewhere between the mainstream church and people out there looking for a God who really exist , the truth is hanging in the air. Day after day people struggle for life. Yes, not only to make a living. What is the use of making a living when we live such short life that is going to end anyway soon. What is the reason for living if we have to die and go to heaven some day. Why don’t we just die and go to heaven?
The answer to that is in the truth. The truth that is written in the Bible that had been overlooked, misquoted and miss interpreted for many years.
People calling themselves “Christians” sometimes do not even know what the word “Christ” means. It means the anointing and the Spirit of God which come unto Jesus when He was baptized in the Jordan. That same Spirit that was given back to the Father, was poured out on earth on the day of Pentecost.
God’s intention was never for Adam to die. His intention was never for us to die! The whole story in the Bible is about LIFE! Not about dying to go to heaven.
Immortality according to the Bible and according to most dictionaries means to live without dying.
I have realized with a shock that children commit suicide because of the teachings and preaching of most preachers in the main stream church. Most preachers preach that it is bad to live on earth and that it will be much better in heaven “ONE DAY”. What nonsense! You are killing our children, lying to them. The Bible does not say that! I challenge any preacher to show me the scripture saying that the only way to go to heaven is to die!
The whole Word of God is about Life! Right from the beginning and basically in every book of the Bible we can see the truth.
Most people will ask , but why are people still dying? Born again Christians who are supposed to have the Spirit of Christ in them. The Spirit that raised Christ from the dead that is supposed to quicken our mortal bodies.
You can only ask that question if the truth has never been preached to you. Surely you can also ask that question if you are not born again. The Bible says that you cannot hear the revelation if someone is not preaching it.
For many years the only “truth” for people was the catholic religion. Luther had to stand up and preach the revelation that you don’t have to pay for your sins. It was in the Bible all the time. But still, someone had to preach the truth. The same happens with new revelation. For many years no one spoke in tongues. It was in the Bible all the time, but someone had to stand up and preach it.
No difference with the word of immortality which is probably the greatest revelation you will ever hear.
The Bible can very easily be misinterpreted because of incorrect translations or translators, trying to push their own doctrines. A very good tip for Bible scholars will be to ensure that the scripture they read is declared by scripture and not something happening in the world or some preacher’s own interpretation. Always test the scriptures by reading the context of the whole chapter. Sometimes it will help to read different translations.
1Co 2:9 (KJV) But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1Co 2:10 (KJV) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
Welcome to this awesome Word of God. Today you have come here, to see one of the greatest revealed mysteries and secrets of God.
The Bible says in Deut 29:29 that “the secret things belong unto the Lord our God, but the things which are revealed belong to us and to our children for ever………..”
The Bible is very clear! You are supposed to be immortal. It says, that it is for those who believe and for those who seek it! Stick with me through this amazing teaching and you will be filled with joy and peace forever.
What is the meaning of the word Immortality?
Is God’s plan for us to die and then go to heaven?
If so, why don’t we just die and go?
What does the Bible say about it?
The word “Immortality” in the Websters’s Dictionary is described as ” EXEMPTION FROM DEATH” or ” UNENDING EXISTENCE” It does not say die and then live or life after death.
Christians will very easily and often quote John 10:10
Joh 10:10 The thief does not come except to steal and to kill and to destroy. I have come so that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
I don’t think they realize what they are quoting
See the following scriptures:
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
2Co 4:11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
It does not say that it will be made manifest AFTER we have died ! It says in the mortal flesh. In other words the flesh which is liable to death. Not the flesh that is dead already.
Carefully look at the following scriptures. Note that Paul is talking about 2 groups of people. He says “death works in us, but life in you” two groups.
2Co 4:10 to 14: always bearing about the dying of the Lord Jesus in the body, so that the life of Jesus also might be revealed in our body. For we who live are always being delivered to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus might also be revealed in our body.So then death works in us, but life in you. For we, having the same spirit of faith (according as it is written, “I believed, and therefore I have spoken”); we also believed and therefore speak, knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus shall also raise us up by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
We know that people are dying and therefore most people who don’t get this revelation will say ” but why are people still dying today?”
Joh 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes on Me has everlasting life.
He did not say , he who believes in ME will die and go to heaven.
Read the whole of John 6 and see how many times HE says: If you eat of My flesh and drink of My blood , you will NEVER DIE!
Jesus says “I am the Bread of life.” & Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and died. This is the Bread which comes down from Heaven, so that a man may eat of it and not die.
Doesnt the Bible say that the last enemy to be subdued and abolished is death?
Can I say this: When you die, you have been conquered by death! You have not subdued death or conquered death. Death is only conquered when you live and don’t die.
Right from the beginning, in Genesis, God’s plan for us was to live and not die. The question in the garden was not sin. It was all about LIFE and DEATH.
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, You shall not eat of it, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.
Gen 3:22 And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man has become as one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever,
Gen 3:23 therefore Jehovah God sent him out from the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he had been taken.
Gen 3:24 And He drove out the man. And He placed cherubs at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.
Psa 118:17 I shall not die but live, and shall declare the works and recount the illustrious acts of the Lord.
Psa 118:24 This is the day which the Lord has brought about; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
Read the whole of Ps 118 and try to see the prophetic Word that the Psalmist is bringing.
Act 13:35 For this reason He says also in another psalm, You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption [to undergo putrefaction and dissolution of the grave]. [Ps. 16:10.]
Act 13:36 For David, after he had served God’s will and purpose and counsel in his own generation, fell asleep [in death] and was buried among his forefathers, and he did see corruption and undergo putrefaction and dissolution [of the grave].
Act 13:37 But He Whom God raised up [to life] saw no corruption [did not experience putrefaction and dissolution of the grave].
Act 13:41 Look, you scoffers and scorners, and marvel and perish and vanish away; for I am doing a deed in your days, a deed which you will never have confidence in or believe, [even] if someone [clearly describing it in detail] declares it to you. [Hab. 1:5.]
Why will Paul refer to Habakkuk? What is the context?
Let us go to Habakkuk and see.
Hab 1:5 Look around [you, Habakkuk, replied the Lord] among the nations and see! And be astonished! Astounded! For I am putting into effect a work in your days [such] that you would not believe it if it were told you. [Acts 13:40, 41.]
Looking at this, we still battle to see any context.
Hab 2:2 And Jehovah answered me and said, Write the vision, and make it plain on the tablets, that he who reads it may run.
Hab 2:3 For the vision is still for an appointed time, but it speaks to the end, and it does not lie. Though it lingers, wait for it; because it will surely come. It will not tarry.
Hab 1:12 Are You not from everlasting, O Jehovah my God, my Holy One? We shall not die.
What is it saying?
The Lord says to Habakkuk , Write the vision down, for there is an appointed time, when it will manifest. Then no one will believe this. What vision? ” WE WILL NEVER DIE”
The word does say that we shall not all die before He returns!
Psa 102:18 Let this be recorded for the generation yet unborn, that a people yet to be created shall praise the Lord.
Psa 102:20 To hear the sighing and groaning of the prisoner, to loose those who are appointed to death,
These guys new that it was not for there time, but for a generation yet unborn.
1 Pe 1:23 You have been regenerated (born again), not from a mortal origin (seed, sperm), but from one that is immortal by the ever living and lasting Word of God.
1Pe 1:24 For all flesh (mankind) is like grass, and all its glory (honor) like [the] flower of grass. The grass withers and the flower drops off,
1Pe 1:25 But the Word of the Lord (divine instruction, the Gospel) endures forever. And this Word is the good news which was preached to you. [Isa. 40:6-9.]
Yes, all flesh is like grass, BUT when you become BORN AGAIN , from the IMMORTAL SEED of GOD, He will renew your strength and your mortal body will be quickened.
Remember that this is only for those who believe!
If it is still difficult to take it, try the next scripture:
Rom 2:7 To those who by patient persistence in well-doing [springing from piety] seek [unseen but sure] glory and honor and [the eternal blessedness of] immortality, He will give eternal life.
It is in all the translations
To those who seek Glory and Honor AND IMMORTALITY, He will give eternal life.
Right through the Bible we see that GOD wants us to live.
Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to witness this day against you that I have set before you life and death, the blessings and the curses; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live.
There was a time when people had an appointment with death, but that appointment with death is cancelled (Ps 102)
This is only a glimpse of what the Word really says.
Yes evn the Jews today thnk Jesus led people astray and the pharisees killed those who carried His gospel…God gave pple gifts and power to use evn Paul says the kingdom of God is not in word but in the demonstration of power we dnt want Him to be a pupet bt whatsoevr He told us to do we strive to do we don’t let our fear hold us back as you do…that man preached Christ all his life demonstrated love and taught grace in a manner that not many could and by the power of God many were healed the lame walked the blind saw etc there is nothing evil about that.Listen my brother God says by faith nothing is impossible so don’t let fear stop you from asking God to do the impossible thru you don’t put limitations on God bcoz without faith it is impossible to please God
mac,
Did you know that Satan is also quite capable of giving people gifts? How sure are you that Kobus van Rensburg’s gifts was from God and not Satan?
Would you mind presenting us with the proof (doctors’ and/or hospital records) that the people Kobus van Rensburg allegedly healed were indeed healed?
Just read the next two verses that follow the scripture u gave me and you have your answr…I don’t need records to prove faith
mac,
The next two verses read as follows:
Even the demons confessed that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. When he appeared before them in the flesh they cried out:
A confession that Jesus is Lord, whilst you claim to heal sick people, prophesy and do many wonderful wonders and miracles in his Name, means nothing – zilch, Nada.
Kobus van Rensburg’s teaching on the cloud of witnesses in Hebrews 1 is sheer necromancy.
mac wrote:
mac, Thomas is not asking you to prove faith – he is asking for evidence that healings claimed by the KvR ministry are true. But you are saying your faith is believing those things that are unseen (no evidence or records) are actually true? You read the scriptures with “blinded eyes and mind”.
2 Corinthians 4:18 (NIV)
18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
You need to accept that the evidence you have been asked for is of things temporary. A cancer or blind eyes healed are of an earthly nature and is not eternal. The thing eternal (salvation) is the unseen part. How do you expect to join a forum with your logic not in gear?
At least one Pentecostal or charismatic has posted on the internet (cannot find it right now) that despite being a continualist (believes that healing, etc is for today) for 20 years he has yet to see a genuine healing, BUT he lives in hope to see this before he dies. At least he knows that he has seen no evidence and will not be able to produce it.
mac, you are a sign seeker:
1 Corinthians 1:22-23 (KJV)
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
IF WE FUNCTION IN LOVE WE WOULD NOT HAVE THESE CONTRARY SPIRITS.THE LOSS OF KOBUS WAS AT AN APPOINTED TIME AND CANCER WAS THE MEDIUM.HIS GRANDFATHER THE PROFET DIED AT THE SAME AGE.CRITICISM WOULD AMOUNT TO JUDGEMENT.BUT THERE IS ONE SCRIPTURE THAT TELLS ME EVEN THE BAD WHEN THEY ARE PREACHING THE GOSPEL THEY ARE ENLARGING THE HOUSE OF GOD.JESUS REBUKED THE DISCIPLE WHEN THEY COMPLAINED ABOUT A CERTAIN PEOPLE PREACHING IN HIS MAN,AMEN
Sebastian Dube,
There is no need for you to shout or is your caps log stuck?
We are commanded to judge “all things.”
I just love your statement “THERE IS ONE SCRIPTURE THAT TELLS ME EVEN THE BAD WHEN THEY ARE PREACHING THE GOSPEL THEY ARE ENLARGING THE HOUSE OF GOD.” If all people are bad (Romans 3:23), to whom are you referring when you say “even the bad?” This is not about the bad and the so-called good (there are none) who preach one and the same Gospel. It’s about bad people preaching a bad (and another) Gospel. The Gospel of Jesus Christ teaches us that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Kobus van Rensburg taught his followers that he was immortal and would never die. Which of these Gospels is the true one? Like you, his followers believe that van Rensburg’s (the bad guy’s) Gospel was the true one and not the one of the only Good Guy in the entire universe. (Matthew 19:17). Here are some examples of how Kobus van Rensburg’s false gospel (another Gospel) influenced his followers.
These are are all lies and yet you still follow his teachings without any compunction?
Or maybe God Himself sent these strange doctrines among you so that you may perish?
Sebastian Dube wrote:
You are NOT functioning in love when you allow false doctrine to spread like wild fire. In fact it is hatred and not love – not only in regard to others but also God Himself. Learn what true love is before you make these infamous statements in public. Jesus asked Peter three times whether he loved Him and each time commanded him to tend to and feed his sheep and his lambs. Go and learn how David defended his lambs and sheep against wolves and other wild beasts and you may learn what it means to tend to and feed God’s lambs and sheep. Your kind of love is a false love and serves no one.
You and all the other followers of Kobus van Rensburg love to think that he spoke the truth when he said that he was immortal and wouldn’t die. You don’t spread life when you teach lies; you spread death.
This page is sponsored by people who don’t understand God at all, people being used by the devil but not realising it at all, I would shut it if I were you because you will lead people astray, Kobus was a man of God, instead of back bitting you brood of vipers preach the gospel and bring the nation to christ. I preach and according to scripture perform miracles and heal that the glory of God be seen. when he preached immortality it was just like what Paul said “I shall not die but live to proclaim the works of God” is not Paul dead right now? you need a bit of understanding before you go about criticising man of God busy looking and trying to snare people with every word that comes from their mouth, you need Jesus in your life who ever is running this discerning the world website. I don’t go to kobus church I am a christian filled with the holy spirit and mightly feared by the devil. make up your mind son of man and repent while you still have time and to all my other folks if you don’t understand the deep things of God i would advise don’t judge or say bad stuff. if kobus was a bad man i don’t care all i know there are testimonies out there of people who didn’t know Christ and wr being troubled by the devil but were given a chance by Jesus through kobus to be partakers of the inheritance of the Kingdom of God.
I have a friend born blind but sees now after being prayed for by a man of God in africa instant healing he is a living testimony as we speak, I was a Drug addict i used to go out for house braking selling marijuana in the streets of zimbabwe been in the highest level of gangster but God turned me to be a powerful Evangelist as we speak stopped smoking drinking and all the other sinful stuff i did 10 years ago and am happily converted to christianity, so miracles are real and God does do miraculous visible stuff amongst mankind
Donald,
I notice you said ” . . . and am happily converted to Christianity.” Constantine was also converted to Christianity. The question is – what brand of Christianity? I would rather prefer you to be converted to Jesus Christ of the Bible and not Christianity.
thats fine my friend you seem not to have approved my previous post but how ever you have seen it and it will help you still. christianity is not a basic term my friend its the life you live in christ, the disciples were first called christians at antioch because they were seen to be christ like, christianity becomes the total way of living after receiving Jesus as your personal saviour , I don’t care about constantine if he said he was a christian and did not live it then he wasn’t a christian because christianity is not just a term its living a life in christ saved baptised filled by the Holy Ghost, Im not here to be arguing with you my friend I command demmons bigger than the one controlling you to go back to hell and they listen because of the authority invested in be by the Jesus Christ you heard, if you find time by yourself relook your christian life and make amends
Donald,
You being a self-proclaimed man of God who preaches the Gospel and performs miracle don’t know that is was not Paul who said “I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD” but King David? (Psalm 118:7).
Donald,
You are not listening. When I asked you to what brand of Christianity you converted, it was to show that there are many so-called Christians today who follow and believe in another Jesus.
You are boasting when you say ” Im not here to be arguing with you my friend I command demmons bigger than the one controlling you to go back to hell and they listen because of the authority invested in be by the Jesus Christ you heard, if you find time by yourself relook your christian life and make amends.”
Stop boasting, humble yourself and start to believe in the Jesus of the Bible who said “I am lowly in heart (humble).” Your boasting is not of God. It comes from Satan.
” . . . be advised my friend,” as you said.
as much as it is David i refer to Paul who quoted the scripture in romans my friend, and by the way if i discern you calling Kobus a false prophet and trying to judge and all that, i have the right to rebuke that which is not of God and by the way we don’t try to be humble when we see people trying to spread heresy to the world we rebuke, I love you too much to have you mislead your self, the kingdom of God suffers violence and the violent shall take it buy force i see you don’t go in depth to understand what i have been telling you, there is a generation of radicals for christ who will not stand and watch why people are led astray
All you doing in trying to unveil the truth bla bla is not bringing anyone to christ, be a fellow soul winner with others. I doubt if you have even brought someone to christ with this mentality, Soul winners don’t waste time trying to identify who is a false prophet or not they preach Jesus and people get saved, if the false prophet then tries to prophecy about your live and its not biblical you simply just won’t receive the prophecy. concentrate on enlarging Gods Kingdom than try fault finding, thats what failures do they try find fault in what those who are succeeding are doing Grow up christianity is not about looking shameful and all that its for those that have radical faith in christ and can do everything to get the kingdom of God moving be advised my friend
I am more convinced than ever that you are following a false Jesus. The Jesus of the Bible commands you to “take heed that no man deceive you.” (Matthew 24:4). In fact He inspired his prophets, apostles and disciples to write extensively on false teachers, apostles and prophets.
In the New Testament alone there are 65 verses warning us against false prophets, 93 verses against false teachers and no less than 100 verses against false apostles. You cannot enlarge God’s Kingdom while you remain ignorant and willfully adamant to the dangers of false prophets, teachers and apostles. Jude, the brother of Jesus wrote:
The most dangerous way to deny Jesus Christ, is to present another Jesus to people and that’s precisely what Kobus van Rensburg did during his life. He preached another Jesus.
“…be advised, my friend” as you said.
Donald,
I find it odd that you should warn me about being led astray when you yourself have already been led astray by Kobus van Rensburg.
Donald wrote to Thomas Lessing:
This is exactly where your problem lies – you think you have license to “do everything”, BUT you are deceived as the Scripture has laid out boundaries that the likes of Kobus van Rensburg ignored by placing himself above God. You are obviously happy to associate with a failed apostle that brought shame to the church through his false teaching. He also appointed himself “an apostle” when he was obviously deceived himself. He has brought the church (which he unfortunately claimed to be a part of) into disrepute.
2 Peter 2:1-2(NIV)
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
Choosing to associate yourself with a false Teacher means that you could be destroyed by your cooperation with his heresies. The end result may be that you end up in hell.
Matthew 15:14 (NIV)
Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”
Be informed by the Scripture – you cannot by deceitful doctrine be a soul winner. A harmful doctrine is often gradual and subtle, but Kobus van Rensburg preached immortality on earth? That is not even subtle……
Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:
Hi Tommy
You said:
>> “I met Kobus when he was in the tent, living in a prefab house, with an ancient clapped out old bakkie and his wife making country and western dresses from calico to support the family.It was in the same period that Trevor Yoko was involved in getting the whole Christian schooling thing going here.
I saw a miracle there when an old man that I knew and that had had a stroke a few weeks previously and was brain damaged was healed. While the community was in worship Kobus called him to the front of the tent did not touch him, just said “Ag Here, genees hom asseblief” and the old man was healed immediately. That was the first time that the old man had ever been in that church….Kobus did not know him from a bar of soap, and neither did anybody in the community. His grandson had brought him there from another town.No falling over, no fireworks, just the Holiness of God filling the whole tent…Believe me I am a skeptic of “godly” healings because I come from the occult and satanism and knew where a lot of them actually came from…so when I got miraculously saved at the Cross, by and through God’s Grace, it carried through with me, but that one healing was real.
His teaching was pure and scriptural then…”
— DTW said: “I would dare to say that its possible the healing was not real. Have you read: Can Satan heal? You do not know what became of that man? Did his health get worse later? The reason I believe it was not a genuine healing is because 1) Kobus could not have started out a good minister and then moved onto being a bad minister. 2) That’s like saying you can get saved and preach the gospel truth, but then lose your salvation and stop preaching the truth. 3) You can’t lose your salvation once you are saved, when the Holy Spirit enters you He SEALS you and stays there permanently. So Kobus was false from the beginning, and so was that healing. And I don’t believe his teaching was pure and 100% scriptural either. Kobus started off as a small false preacher who preached on a small scale and as he expanded he became more false as he sought after more power through Toronto and TB Joshua.”
I think you need to be careful hear about your reasons for believing this man to be a false prophet. I have read through lots of the comments on this blog and I must say outright that I do not believe the teachings on immortality. But you say that Kobus’ healing were not genuine because he couldn’t have started out as a good minister and then turned bad because the Holy Spirit seals believers. Yes the Holy Spirit seals believers and He fills them but if you choose to follow error even when He leads and guides you against it then that is your choice to walk in the wrong direction. There are many who have been true believers and ministers sealed, filled but who have somewhere along their Christian journey strayed from the faith. Because they have strayed, does that mean they weren’t “good” in the first place? Of course not. It means that the devil deceived them along the way and even though the Holy Spirit prompted them against that deception they still yielded to it.
What evidence to you have that this was or was not the case with Kobus? You talk about this website being about exposing heresies but you make claims and accusations about this man in your statement that you have not proved. I totally agree with the Scriptures you have used to show error in Kobus thinking. You talk about “his lies” and him conning people. That would suggest a deliberate desire to deceive people not a man how was himself deceived and believed error. But yet for these things you say about him more personally, you bring no proof. Can you share the proof that this man deliberately intended to deceive, con and lie to people? As I believe that would make your claims credible.
What you do not realise is that your 3 points for claiming Kobus to be a false from the beginning (not just false but false from the beginning) are full of errors also. I give the example of Judas – how he walked with Jesus not just him but others too that the Bible says they found Jesus’ words too offensive so they walked away from following Him. But I also draw your attention to the Parable of the sower – which in three of the examples is actually talking about so called “believers”. In one case in particular the Word says (paraphrasing) that the seed feel in rocky ground. Jesus later explains this as those who initially accept the Word into their hearts gladly but then afflications and persecutions come BECAUSE OF THE WORD which causes them to FALL AWAY. that says clearly that they accepted the Word, they may still have been on milk spiritually so to speak but they still accepted the Word. Jesus then explains that they fell away. That suggests that you can become a believer and then fall away from belief in Christ because of the Word – the standard it brings and opposition to that. The idea of once saved always saved is error. You have called out the Teachings of Kobus Van Rensberg (quite rightly) as not being based on the Word. But his teaching specifically against the Word is where you should stay, rather than talking about him as being “False from the beginning” and implying that he was never a “good minister”. These statements cannot be backed up by the Word or by any proof you have provided so far which then suggests that you are judging him personally (i.e. saying he is false and a bad minister) based on your opinion and not fact or evidence or most importantly the Word.
From 21/12/2013 to 8/09/2014 debating about a dead man. Wow, this site is busy. I said before that there’ll be no winners in this debate and I wasnt wrong. I must say the debate wasnt that fruitful. Grace to you all.
Joe,
Some dead people lieve a legacy, you know, and it kills those who are still alive and oh sooooooo ignorant.
Nez,
Kobus van Rensburg’s ministry was bad from the very outset. He received his anointing from TB Joshua in Lagos, Nigeria who is one of today’s most dangerous false prophets on the planet. Kobus was slain in the spirit by TB who told him to go back to South Africa where he would do the same miracles as he.
Walking with Jesus the way Judas had done, does not prove that you are saved in the beginning and later fall away. Judas was bad from the very beginning and remained unsaved until his death by suicide.
Get your facts straight. The parable of the sower refers to the spreading of the gospel and the response of UNBELIEVERS to it – not believers. Those who fall away were the false Christians who thought they were saved.
Are you going to tell us which of his sermons on the internet and those being repeated on tape in his church by his family, are the ones he delivered at the beginning of his ministry when he was still OK and those he delivered when he fell away? Guess what, all his sermons are the same, right from the beginning and right to the end.
In any case, pastors and teachers are going to be judged – not by what they had said or done in the beginning of their ministry – by what they had done at the end of their lives.
Joe
We are fighting against his false teaching that are STILL to this day, after he is dead, leading people to hell. Do you have a problem with us trying to speak to people and tell that that what they are believing is false and demonically influencing their lives that if they don’t stop and listen to the Holy Spirit’s warnings they are on the road straight to tell? Do you want to see people in hell Joe? Do you want God to hold you responsible for trying to make sure people go to hell, because you want us to stop warning people against Kobus van Rengburg’s legacy?
There is a winner on this website and that is the WORD OF GOD, Jesus Christ in published form. There are many people that read this website Joe and many have woken up to the truth because we well the truth.
We are not going to stop because you think we should, that would be listening to Satan.
Thomas Lessing (Watch and Pray / Waak en Bid) wrote:
Thomas,
I will start by saying that I have not followed Kobus at all so I came to this site “fresh” as it were without thought nor feeling about this made either way. As I read what was said though, I was troubled by the delivery of some of the posts against this man. Yes I say AGAINST because as much as we are told to rebuke when error is made, that rebuke should be done in love – just as Christ would with us. It troubled me to see that although rebuke re immortality teachings was necessary, there seemed to be no love or respect in dealing with a man who has passed away. I’m not saying dumb it down or pretend error is okay – no but these things should still be done respectfully. I feel an undertone or attitude of “one up manship/I’m right you’re wrong” or “look I told you so – he died didn’t he”. That is simply distasteful and not really about the love of God and the Kingdom.
I take your point about Judas walking with Jesus as no indication of accepting the truth but you say that he was bad from the beginning. That is not Biblically accurate. The Bible speaks about him having “unbelief” in his heart. There is a difference between “bad” and “unbelief” and his highlights my issues with this blog.
You claim that you are trying to call out “false prophets” but you don’t stick to facts. Lots of what I see on this blog is assumption and emotional response to Kobus’ teachings. For example the point I made before – higher up Kobus is described as lying to people/telling lies and even conning people. I said before – these statements suggest that Kobus knowingly and deliberately taught things that were untrue with the intention of deceiving people. As I asked before – where is your proof of this. You want people to read your blog and learn from it but you make statements and are being asked to back up those statements but you have not done so. How do you know that Kobus was not a man who was deceived and started to believe another gospel? My point before and my point now is that if you are going to make statements about someone on a public domain, it is reasonable for you to be expected to back those statements up. I’ve seen no “proof” of Kobus being a “liar” or a “con man”. I see prove that of his teachings about immortality stray far from the Word but that is the measure all statements you make should be measured against – The Word. I’m simply saying I don’t have an issue with call out pastors’/ministers’ teachings if they are erroneous BASED ON THE WORD but that does not then give you the right to make statements about said people that you are not prepared to back up yourselves with “EVIDENCE”. Yes pastors and teachers will be judged but so will you so I would again encourage caution on what you say about people because as much as there is error in Kobus’ teaching, no man knew his heart.
Finally I would like to comment on your statement about “getting my facts straight” regarding the Parable of the Sower. I would suggest reading it again and asking the Holy Spirit to give you fresh revelation about this text because it is certainly NOT about the unbeliever only. As I said before 3 out of the 4 are believers. If you read Matthew 13: 20 – 23, the language highlights this. Many people assume that only the fourth example is is a believer because he/she is fruitful. But that’s like saying that either all believers are fruitful (which is false) or unless you are fruitful then you are not a believer (also false). Believers should be fruitful but the truth is, there are many who have accepted God into they hearts but who are not fruitful but still very much struggling to stay saved/on milk. Verse 20 is the most revealing because Jesus clearly says that these people receive the Word with joy. How can this be an unbeliever? The text later goes onto say that they stay with it for a while until basically something in the Word stands up against something they have held to then they FALL AWAY. Again I ask, how can an UNBELIEVER fall away? They are already fallen! These verses rather speak about a BELIEVER, someone who was happy to receive the Word, maybe stayed with the whole Christian life for a short while but then fell away. Can you then say that it is not possible for Christians to fall away? Of course it is. 2 Peter 2: 20 -22 also speaks about the grave consequences of this. Why speak on it if it can’t happen? I go back to my original point which was – how do you know Kobus was “bad” from the beginning? People can and do fall away and this should not just be looked at as “well they weren’t true believers in the first place”. That thinking is error and I would suggest you ask the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth on that too. As for Kobus’ sermons – I have no interest in listening to these but still believe that where a calling out or rebuke is needed this should be done respectfully without the need to bring your own conduct into question. Sadly, I think too many on here have done that with your conduct.
Nez wrote:
Please give me an example of some of the comments that were not written “in love” and then we can talk again.
Is this speaking the truth in love?
Nez,
You say 3 out of the 4 in the parable of the sower as believer? Really???
Barnes writes:
Only the seed that fell on good soil refers to a person who was lost and then responded favorably to the Gospel to be saved. Nevertheless, the fact is that he told the parable to unbelievers and not believers.
Nez,
You’re a strange one. You tell us not to rebuke false teachers, but then you do so yourself.
You ask us to provide you with evidence and then you proceed to give evidence? How does that work for you?
Kobus’ doctrine on immortality is diametrically at enmity with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
If we are not allowed to rebuke false teachers in public, then they should stop preaching their heresies in public. However, as long as they preach their heresies in public I own myself the right to rebuke them in public.
Nez wrote:
WHAT!!! Are you serious??? Unbelief is the epitome of badness. It is even much badder than just being bad.
Thomas,
Okay so firstly not quite sure why you quote Gal 1:8-9. At not point have I disagreed with your comments about Kobus’ teachings on immortality so don’t really see why this Scripture is mentioned. You asked for comments not made in love, I have picked a few:
comment to Joe 31 Dec
“you have been misled into a stupor of utter blindness” (i see this as rude and unnecessary)
Comment to Sarah 29 Dec
“I just love the way how you express your love with words like “devil worshipper”….” (I see this as sarcastic and again unnecessary)
Comment to Trishia on 27 Dec
“You just love to twist the Scripture don’t you?” (Again I see this as sarcastic)…
…and of course your comment made to me on 17 October “You are a strange one” Let me ask you honestly. Was this comment or any of the other comments I’ve listed (which by the way is not all the comments in the blog just a few examples) “MADE IN LOVE”? I think about how Jesus would teach and deal with people who question things in Christianity and I know He would deal with people with compassion and patience. He wouldn’t be sarcastic, make comments which are rude or condescending, make comments which seem to be about “one up manship/winning an arguement rather than winning a soul” and I know He certainly wouldn’t resort to name calling. There will always be people who disagree with comments you have made but that does not give you the right to be sarcastic or plain and simply rude. I find your comment to me “You are a strange one” rude. period. When address me I ask that you stop the name calling and sarcasm. It’s not respectful and it’s unnecessary. People are less likely to listen to what you have to say when you come across in this fashion – which is probably why people have already commented on some of your conduct. You don’t need to address people in this way, it simply is not Godly.
Secondly, The parable of the sower. I encouraged you to read and ask the Holy Spirit to give you revelation. I don’t believe there is anything wrong with quoting Barnes but the Holy Spirit is the best, most perfect Teacher and the Word says that He will guide you into all truth (John 16:13). Of verse 20 Barnes says “Yet they have no root. They are not TRUE Christians.” If you see my earlier comment, I expressed the same thing. These people have “no roots”. I mentioned, its like a new believer in Christ. Th WORD says they receive the Word with joy. If this verse refers to an unbeliever then that unbeliever receives the Word with joy and still remains and unbeliever? How can that be? Barnes hits the word on the head – TRUE Christian. There are many, many sadly in the church who have repented of their sins, confessed Christ with their mouth and believed He is Lord in their heart. These people are believers. But many don’t move on from there. Some stay there because of lack of knowledge, lack of faith, laziness, fear etc. The Bible describes these folks ask those who are like a man escaping from a burning house, he himself will be saved but he will suffer loss (1 Cor 3:15). They are saved but not operating as “TRUE” Christians because as much as they have accepted salvation as they start to learn more, the Word of God offends them so they eventually fall away. The example of the seed falling in among the thorns is similar. The Word says that these people “become unfruitful”. This suggests a moving to the state of unfruitfulness. Only a BELIEVER can move to a state of unfruitfulness because an unbeliever constantly lives there. In fact unfruitfulness is the natural state on an unbeliever. They cannot “become unfruitful” it is part of who they are as unbelievers. ONLY a Believer can move from fruitfulness back into unfruitfulness. These may be believers who for example get sucked into the whole prosperity gospel. They have accepted Christ but along their journey they are drawn to the pull of financial gain, popularity, fame and instead of moving forward in God’s plan for their life and being a witness to others, they chase these messages and become unfruitful in the Kingdom. These are believers and Barnes commentary does not take away from that. They are not living the true Christian life as they should but if they were to die, they would make it in – if only just. The fourth description is who we should be and let’s be real – getting their is a process. Most are not THERE from the point they accept salvation. There is a lot of growing up in Christ and allowing the Word to take root that needs to be done.
Thirdly, I never said NOT too rebuke false teachers, you have misquoted me there. What I did say was to present your argument about someone’s teachings based on the Word which I acknowledged in both of my previous comments that you did specifically around Kobus’ teaching on immortality. At no point have I agreed with this teaching or said you should not have done so. My issue has been your comments and Deborah’s comments about Kobus being a “liar” and conman. Here’s a comment you made:
Comment to Just a Question 30 Dec
Camping predicted Jesus would return on certain dates – HE LIED
Kobus Van Renbsberg said he was immortal – HE LIED
As I stated before to lie or to con someone is something done with DELIBERATE INTENTION. I am asking you to PROVE that Kobus lied and conned people. You have said it public so now you are being called upon to prove these statements. This is now the third time I have asked you to prove this and no proof that Kobus deliberately and intentional lied to and conned people has been provided so far. This is why I said what I said about being cautious about what you say. These statements strike me as “assumption” and “emotional response”. I am specifically asking for EVIDENCE for these 2 statements. As stated before, you HAVE provided evidence about Kobus’ teachings on immortality based on the Word. You have shown what he said and how that DID NOT line up with the Word. I am asking for you to do the same in regards to him lying and conning people as you have put it. I said previously, how do you know Kobus himself was not deceived by this wayward teaching? you categorically state he is lying, he is a liar, he lied, he conned people etc but you don’r say how you know this so definitively. I want to know also, if that is the case. My point here is that when people teach things that do not line up with the Word, yes we must rebuke but we must leave it there. We don’t add in our own interpretation of what they are doing and why unless we are sure and have proof. The impression that you build of Kobus is one of a man with a plan to deceive the church, a man who worked for the devil (as you keep quoting “Can Satan Heal”, a man tat was “bad” from the beginning who had not intention of promoting Christ. I see a man who claimed to love God and who claimed to want to serve Him. I also see a man who taught a mixture of the true Gospel and mixed up teachings not supported by the Word but I don’t his heart – only God does. So I refuse to comment on his character as a person until I have proof to be able to do so in a clear and honest way. I refuse to make statements about a person as if they were true when in actual fact they are “my OPINION” and if I give my opinion I state this is how I think or feel about something.
Finally, I do not believe that Judas was not totally unbelieving from the beginning. It is clear that there was some belief in him. He believed . In John 6: 60 – 71 many other disciples leave Jesus because they are offended by the Word He speaks. Judas stays and Simon Peter speaks for the disciples by saying to Jesus that “We believe you are the Christ” He spoke for Judas too even though Jesus then speaks of Judas as a devil knowing it is him who will betray Him. In Matthew 26: 23:25, Judas refers to Jesus as Master so it is clear there is some belief there but total unbelief. Judas’ walk with Christ is more complex than just good or bad. Yes there is unbelief – otherwise Satan would not have been able to enter him but unbelief had sent into Simon Peter also as he denied Christ. People speculate about his intentions when he walked with Jesus and why he betrayed Him but the Bible does not give us full insight on this although we know it ended badly for him. I brought Judas up initially to say that you did not know the intentions of Kobus heart. You speak of him as bad from the beginning but where was his beginning? and what beginning – his beginning in life or the Christian faith? Where is the line crossed from teaching in error about a topic to being a false prophet or being used to heal by Satan. Just out of interest, where do you think Kobus has gone?