In his church office, pastor Chuck Smith kept a crown made of thorns and a jar full of candy. The thorns were from the Holy Land. The candy was for his grandkids. The image suggested his special appeal as a preacher: A harsh, old-school Christianity delivered with grandfatherly sweetness.
Smith, the founder of the Jesus People and the Calvary Chapel movement, and one of the most influential figures in modern American Christianity, died Thursday morning at his home in Newport Beach after a two-year battle with lung cancer, church officials said. He was 86.
“He was definitely a pioneer,” said Donald E. Miller, a professor of religion at USC. “He had a transformative impact on Protestantism.”
The Calvary Chapel phenomenon, which now includes more than 1,000 churches nationwide and hundreds more overseas, began with the 25-member church Smith founded on a Costa Mesa lot in 1965.
He was a biblical literalist who believed staunchly in hell, Armageddon and the sinfulness of homosexuality. But from the pulpit, and in person, he emanated a disarming warmth. His church became famous as a sanctuary for a generation of counterculture refugees. He wore a Hawaiian shirt and a big, benevolent smile.
Continue reading here —> http://www.latimes.com/obituaries/la-me-1004-chuck-smith-20131004,0,7276715.story
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Lonnie Frisbee
Who is Chuck Smith:
Chuck Smith
“Actually “the Calvary Chapel Movement was essentially spawned by Lonnie Frisbee, not Chuck Smith. It was Chuck’s embracing of Frisbee that drew the massive crowds of young hippies during the Jesus Movement…who then grew up and were Institutionalized by the opportunistic and shrewd Businessman, Chuck Smith.
Can a healthy Spirit-Led Movement of God be founded upon a man, Lonnie Frisbee, who was doing LSD and having homosexual relations with other men on Saturday…and then preaching the “real” Jesus Christ and Gospel on Sunday?
Lonnie Frisbee’s life and struggles with drugs and homosexuality is well documented. He died of AIDS as a result of his homosexual lifestyle. A very sad end I wouldn’t wish on anyone.
Kathryn Kuhlman
Kathryn Kuhlman, another Calvary Chapel and Chuck Smith partner that was instrumental in the genesis of the Movement is hailed as the major influence in Benny Hinn’s life. The hyper-Charismatic “faith healer”,
Kuhlman, was very close to Smith and very much a part of the early days of CC.
Chuck Smith intervened with a Church Discipline Process with regards to David Hawking’s Adultery and sex scandal, circumventing another Church’s Scripturally motivated disciplinary process.
The list of scandals and cover-ups in Camp Calvary Chapel, Chuck Smith’s Progeny, is astounding. This site documents the tip
Chuck Smith and Rick Warren apostacising together of the Ice Burg (but we’ll get to many others in time, and the list keeps growing as more people contact me with information). Please read: Chuck Smith from Calvary Chapel entertains Rick Warren
A defense I’ve heard from some in the Online Discernment community, the supposed “Watch People” of “Sound Doctrine” and “Apostasy” etc. is, “Well, Chuck Smith is a gifted bible teacher”…and that excuses the Scandals and lack of following Scripture in dealing with sin in the Camp.
Well, what happens if Chuck Smith is preaching Heresy with regards to a Core Doctrine of the Faith? Can Chuck Smith be “wrong” and have a “wrong interpretation of Scripture” on a foundational issue like the Resurrection? Personhood? (Who the “real me” is).
I submit that Chuck Smith cannot be wrong on the Doctrine of Resurrection and be trusted as a true Prophet of God. The issue of Resurrection is key to our Faith. If one is “wrong” on the Resurrection…then others (Gnostics, Emergents, RCC, Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, you name it) can be “wrong”, too, and it shouldn’t rise to the level of calling out the different “interpretation”…if we can just ignore something as serious as a Heretical View of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ and of the Saints.”
“What does Chuck Smith say about who “we” are as “the Real Me”? What is Chuck Smith’s teaching regarding the Doctrine of Resurrection?
Chuck Smith teaches that (in his own words, see video) that “the REAL ME is spirit“…classic Gnosticism.
Chuck Smith goes on to teach a Doctrine of Resurrection of both Jesus Christ and the Saints where “your spirit LEAVES your body” and “goes into a NEW body” after you die. Classic Jehovah’s Witness Theology.
He goes on to explain that Jesus Christ had a “similar but different” body when He Resurrected. It is not the “same” Physical Body that has been Glorified, but rather the “spirit” of Jesus (and our “spirit” who is the “real me“) LEAVES our “old bodies” and then migrates to a “new body“…some Quasi-Spirit Body. This is Heresy.
I call on Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel to repent of their Heresy regarding the Doctrine of Resurrection. They cannot be “wrong” on this Core Foundational issue as the Gnostics and Jehovah’s Witnesses are. If we compromise the integrity of this Foundational Truth…then we are on a Slippery Slope and we are preaching a “different Jesus”.
There is no “old body” in the Tomb that Jesus arose from. Jesus Christ has “one” Literal Physical Earthly Body that was Glorified. We have one Literal Physical Earthly Body that is “the real us” that is Glorified. Jesus’s “spirit” and our “spirit” does not “leave our old body” and migrate to some “new body” that is a Quasi-Spirit Body. That is JW and Gnostic and off the Reservation of Christian orthodoxy.” [Emphasis added] -http://calvarychapelabuse.com/wordpress/?p=998
2 Corinthians 6:14-1514 Be you not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion has light with darkness?
15 And what concord has Christ with Belial? or what part has he that believes with an infidel? Ephesians 5:11
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
On their FaceBook page, The Berean Call uploaded a picture of Dr Henry Morris, Chuck Smith and Dave Hunt under the caption “Three good friends”. I tried to upload the picture but was unsuccessful.
All I can say is WOW~I didn’t know he believed and taught THIS “stuff”! What he is saying in this video DISCOUNTS The “Harpazo/The Rapture”, because the MOMENT we are Caught up to meet our Lord in the air, our mortal bodies are translated into IMMORTAL,GLORIFIED bodies JUST LIKE Jesus Christ got!
That’s why “The dead in Christ rise FIRST”, and THEN we who are LIVING rise.THIS is for ALL BELIEVERS, their “FIRST Resurrection”, whether dead or alive.
1Corinthians 15:39 : “All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1Co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1Co 15:42 So ALSO is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is RAISED a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And AS we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep(die), but we shall ALL be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, AND we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
AND:
1Thessalonians 4:13 ” But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For IF we BELIEVE that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God BRING WITH Him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.(Dead)
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise FIRST:
1Th 4:17 THEN we which are alive and remain shall be caught up TOGETHER with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
Jesus Christ IS “The FIRST FRUITS” of the Resurrection! The dead in Christ and the living in Christ are “Second Fruits”, so to speak, because HE is our “PROOF” that we (who BELIEVE upon Him) WILL be resurrected just as He was!
Those who died have a CONSCIOUSNESS of being with our Lord, just as those who are in Hell have a consciousness of the TORMENT they are in there:
Luke 16:19 “There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in HELL he lift up his eyes, BEING IN TORMENTS, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; FOR I am TORMENTED in THIS FLAME.”
“Consciousness” of being with the Lord, or of being tormented in Hell DOES NOT mean either the Righteous or the Unrighteous have a BODY. The Righteous will get their Glorified bodies just MOMENTS before we who are living get ours!!
THIS is where Chuck Smith preaches HERESY against Jesus Christ and His Holy Word! It’s “SUBTLE”, just as the serpent was “subtil” with Eve when he TWISTED and questioned God’s Words!
Dear Beloved Saints, THIS is how FALSE Teachers/Prophets/Evangelists/”Pastors” WORK! It is their “Modus Operendi”-their “M.O.” as police detectives call it. We ALL MUST be GROUNDED in The Word of God in order not to be snared in these “word traps” that end up preaching “Another Jesus” and “Another Gospel” which the Apostle Paul WARNED us REPEATEDLY to AVOID!! May’s God’s wisdom,discernment, and understanding be upon ALL of His Bride in these LAST of these Last Days is my prayer.
The words “change” and “this” make it clear that this body we now have will be changed when Jesus returns at the Rapture. This corruptible body must put on incorruption; this mortal body must put on immortality.
Many people have asked me: “What happens to Christians who have been cremated? They no longer have bodies which must put on incorruption and immortality.” Well, the same can be said of those who are buried. They too no longer have bodies after a prolonged period of time. All that remains are a pile of dry bones and after many years their bones also begin to deteriorate and fade away.
Although Lazarus’ body did not deteriorate and rot away so that only his bones remained, he was raised to life in the same body he had when he died. Resurrection occurs when the soul and the spirit (which are both safely kept in heaven with Jesus) re-enter the divinely restored body. How this restoration takes place, no one knows. What I do know is that God who is able to weave together into a body all the wonderful intricacies that go together with it in the secret depths of a woman’s womb (Psalm 139:15), is also able to restore to life the very same body. But there is no body to restore after cremation and prolonged rigor mortus, you would say. Here’s the answer:
Eons before Jeremiah had a body, God knew Him through and through. He knew exactly how many atoms he would have and what the DNA of each and every atom would look like. If that doesn’t tell us how God is going to refashion the same body in the twinkling of an eye, then I don’t know what will convince us that God is quite capable of restoring to life the same body He saw you would have even before you even had it.
Dan
I think Dave Hunt in his later years was oblivious to who Chuck Smith really was.
Right on Thomas
Calvary Chapels despite all their warts do have some positives. They stand against Calvinism. They hold to pretrib. Most still do present the uncompromised Gospel of grace, not works. They teach through the Bible expositorily rather than topically. God used the movement. That cannot be denied. This is despite all the foibles of Chuck Smith and the questionable beginnings. Respect turned to idolization and any time this happens in leadership trouble follows and a cult-like atmosphere is fostered. Smith’s “Seat of Moses” concept left the door wide open for pastors who got too big for their britches and beat the sheep instead of leading them and serving them. This was a crack in the foundation. But in fairness, there is really no perfect form of church government as congregational rule is fraught with pitfalls as well. It all depends upon the integrity of the pastor and the people.
There was a time when Calvary Chapels could generally be considered “safe”, but that time passed some time ago. God always has a remnant and we need to pray for that remnant, that they will have the courage and discernment to follow the Lord’s leading and not go with the status quo. If someone would have been guarding the flocks and keeping out the wolves and discernment valued and heeded, things could have been different.
A point of clarification: Chuck Smith often did turn a blind eye to sin in the camp, but the situation with David Hocking has been blown out of proportion in the article. Hocking stopped short of having an affair and submitted to correction. He and his wife are happily married and have given their testimony to help others and have written books on marriage.
sallyforth
Will you drink a glass of water with 1% poison in it? I am sure you won’t. The 1% in the water of Calvary Chapel is their compromising stance with Catholicism and Freemasonry. Not good! Not good at all!
If you study the dynamic of CC’s, you will find that a majority of those who attend came OUT of Roman Catholicism and most CC pastors do NOT endorse RC and in fact expose it as a gospel of works.
Apparently you misunderstand my remarks – not intended to defend Calvary Chapels, simply to try and be fair. Also, Freemasonry is not endorsed across the board in Calvary Chapels. Not all of them embrace Boykin and his ilk. They don’t all walk in lock step – each one is independent, loosely tethered to the movement, but agreeing on the essentials. Some haven’t seen the light and the fallacy of staying connected, so I don’t see the point in condemning them, but rather to pray for them that they will come out and be separate. You will find that the Gospel of grace without works is preached as I know many who are involved. I was just trying to point out some positives. It is not a copout to say there is no perfect church. Sorry, but I don’t think your analogy fits here.
Finally a discernment ministry that does not fear man! Re. Calvary Chapel–if the foundation is flawed (which it is) the building will crumble!
**Sallyforth:”Calvary Chapels despite all their warts do have some positives. They stand against Calvinism. They hold to pretrib. Most still do present the uncompromised Gospel of grace, not works. They teach through the Bible expositorily rather than topically. God used the movement. That cannot be denied. This is despite all the foibles of Chuck Smith and the questionable beginnings. Respect turned to idolization and any time this happens in leadership trouble follows and a cult-like atmosphere is fostered.”
This IS the TRUTH, Sally! I live in northern California, and there are NO churches to be found here that teach all of the The TRUE Doctrines of the Christian Church and The Rapture and preach the TRUE Gospel of Jesus Christ AS the Apostle Paul taught.
There are THREE Calvary Chapel Pastors I follow on the internet, who DO preach and teach the RIGHTEOUS ,Rightly-divided Word of God-Line upon line,Precept upon Precept, in addition to all of the above stated beliefs.
I am a Berean, and I carefully go over every word these three say,downloading their sermons into my Desktop, and reviewing them along with my ESword online Bible, also downloaded into the Desktop, so I do not even have to go into the internet to listen and read. There has NEVER been even a “whiff” of scandal, nor “trouble” involving ANY of these three MATURE, LONG-MARRIED men, who are into their 50’s and even 60’s! I’ve also gone back to their OLD sermons, some dating a DECADE or more, and could find no ERROR as related to God’s Word.
**To Thomas:
“Will you drink a glass of water with 1% poison in it? I am sure you won’t. The 1% in the water of Calvary Chapel is their compromising stance with Catholicism and Freemasonry. Not good! Not good at all!”
I believe you are painting ALL Calvary Chapel-affiliated Churches with the SAME “Broad Brush” here. Just as our Lord & Savior DIFFERENTIATED between each of the SEVEN “Churches” in Revelation 1-3, so must we, as His disciples, be very careful to look at the the Pastors of each individual church, at their teaching, preaching, doctrines, and how they are LIVING their lives- publically and privately, and whether they are being the responsible Shepherds over their flocks, as they ARE ACCOUNTABLE to God for what they do!
NOT ALL Calvary Chapel-affiliated Churches COMPROMISE in regards to Catholicism, Freemasonry, and other POISONS being introduced into ALL Christian Churches today by those “Ministers of Satan”,2Corinthians 11:13-15,as the Apostle Paul WARNED us against in these Last Days! Jude, the half brother of our Lord wrote about them:
Jude 1:4 “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jude 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.”
Each of us who names the Name of Jesus Christ as our Savior and Lord MUST “Judge RIGHTEOUSLY”!
As to Chuck Smith and “the Hirelings” who pastored at Calvary Chapel Churches, where terrible sin and wrongdoing was done against the Body of Christ and MOSTLY against the YOUNG people, the CHILDREN- THEIR judgment now lies with God, The RIGHTEOUS Judge, Who will render to each person whatever good or UNREPENTED evil works they have done in their earthly bodies.
Chuck Smith always taught the “abiding doctrine”, which is basically works for salvation, which is a false gospel. He taught that you must “abide well enough in Jesus” in order to be saved, and if you didn’t “abide well enough”, then you could lose your salvation. Thus, he was always wrong about the Gospel. But yes, he was also way off on the “new body” doctrine. He must have hated his body or something, to pound so heavily on that crazy false doctrine.
Briefly – I have spent the last 7 years going from one church to the other in search of purity, and am unable to find any where then do I go – what churches do all of the main contributers of this site attend? Is purity to be found between ACT and the second coming of christ??? Should we indeed bother. I as most do need and indeed we are commanded to seek fellowship -what to do?
SE Brown wrote
Where are all those Calvary Chapel-affiliated Church Pastors who do not compromise in regards to Catholicism, Freemasonry and other POISONS? Why aren’t they speaking out against these atrocities and warning and exhorting in love (2 Timothy 3:16) those who do? What does the Bible say?
Yes, Jesus differentiated between the seven churches in Revelation 1-3. Does that give us the OK to molly-coddle false doctrine? I don’t think so. Jesus warned and rebuked the churches who went off course and urged them to repent. So, to put it mildly, your excuse to turn a blind eye just because the other pastors (who have become like dumb dogs who cannot bark [Isaiah 56:10] just because they are afraid to lose their jobs) have not fallen prey to false doctrines, is a little far-fetched. Don’t blame Jesus of being mildly satisfied with the churches who missed the boat. Read the history and you will see that the church at Ephesus faded away into oblivion because she refused to repent. In fact, the immediate area where the church was situated has been uninhabited since the 14th century. If that’s not judgment, then I don’t know what is. Jesus did not ONLY DIFFERENTIATE between the churches; He judged them accordingly.
If those pastors of the Calvary Chapel-affiliated churches love the Lord they would do one of two things – warn and exhort and when this does not help, leave the church.
To remain in a church where they compromise in regards to Catholicism and Freemasonry, even if some of the pastors are biblical in their preaching, is to receive of her plagues.
Or perhaps we should follow Paul’s example who said:
Nope! Paul said:
By the way, where do you get the idea “Who will render to each person whatever good or UNREPENTED evil works they have done in their earthly bodies” from? No one is going to be judged for false doctrine at the Bema Throne of Judgment. That’s pure nonsense. False teachers aren’t even going to make it to the Bema Throne of Judgment. How do I know. Well read Paul’s indictment of false teachers in Galatians 1: 8 and 9 again. No one is going to be judged for “UNREPENTANT evil works” at the Bema Throne. Christians’ GOOD works are going to be judged to determine whether they were done in, by and through the Holy Spirit (gold, silver and precious stones) or in, by and through the flesh (wood, hay and stubble). If the latter, then the works are going to be devoured by fire.
To say the positives outweigh the warts reminds me of the Muslims’ belief that their god is going to weigh their good and bad works in a scale. If the good works tip the scale, then bully for you but if your bad works tip it – well, then you’re not going to make it to paradise. No! the God of the Bible doesn’t do it that way. In any case, false doctrines aren’t just warts that can be outweighed with positives. That’s rubbish. False doctrines make their false teachers fit for hell (Read Galatians 1:8 and 9 again and NOT Galatians 100 verse 103).
Thomas Lessing: I do not know you, nor anything about you, so I would NEVER dare to judge you as a person. Because you claim to be a Brother in Christ, I would be “playing God” to judge you sight unseen, and not knowing your true heart, which ONLY you and The Lord Jesus Christ know.
HERE are the names of THREE pastors of Calvary Chapel-affiliated Churches, along with their phone numbers and their addresses. I recommend that you contact each one of them PERSONALLY, and talk out your legitimate grievances regarding Chuck Smith, Catholicism, Free Masonry, and ALL of the Calvary Chapel-affiliated Churches with THEM!
I KNOW for a FACT that ALL THREE of these men preach and warn AGAINST all of the things you mentioned! You might even be delightfully surprised to find out how much they HATE Apostasy in ALL of its evil forms!
By the way, they do NOT “worship at the altar of Chuck Smith”! You did not really read what I wrote, because you were too involved with your own agenda of “Chuck Smith”! These pastors are NOT “Chuck Smith”.
Furthermore I wrote:”THEIR judgment now lies with God, The RIGHTEOUS Judge, Who will render to each person whatever good or UNREPENTED evil works they have done in their earthly bodies.”
I said NOTHING about The Bema Seat of Christ! I do NOT believe that these men are saved, and I called them “Hirelings”. True pastors of the Church FEED and Tend the Flock of God. They do not ABUSE nor Beat the lambs, nor feed them poison! Unrepentent unregenerated people will NOT enter the Kingdom of God. However, IF they repent, and IF they are truly Born Again, then they WILL be forgiven- but those are BIG “Ifs”.
1)Calvary Church of Port Orchard
Pastor Kevin Lea- Phone:(360)876-7288
Mailing Adress:P.O. Box 151, Port Orchard, Washington98366
2)412 Church,Calvary Affiliate
Pastor Tom Hughes-Phone:(951)654-1401
Address:San Jacinto,CA.92582
3)Calvary Chapel Kaneohe
Pastor JD Farag -Phone:(808)262-8800
Address:39 Maluniu Avenue,Ste.#201
Kailua,Hawaii 96734
*Note: Pastor Farag will not be at his Church for at least another week, because he is on a “Honeymoon” with his wife of 29 years.
Finally, Brother Lessing: The Ephesian Church faded because they LOST THEIR FIRST LOVE~ Jesus Christ. Their Doctrines were straight arrow,their activities were abundant, and they fought HERESY with all of their might. There was only one thing they forgot to do:ABIDE in the LOVE of Jesus Christ.They did NOT LOVE their Lord as they had in the beginning, and because of this, they were not able to love others.
I will be honest with you- you come across as very rigid and unloving, almost “Phariseeical”.
I HATE HERESY, and I HATE that people are going to Hell because false teachers are planted in the Church today! However, Jesus warned us in advance of what was coming, and Paul and Peter, and all of the Old Testament prophets did the same in their days with the Israelites and also predicted OUR days.
Our Lord is coming SOON, and I spend my time sharing His Gospel with ANYONE who will listen. I LOVE people~ all kinds of people, and those who have turned to Jesus Christ because of my “seed-planting,or watering,or harvesting”, did so because they KNEW how much I loved them!
I also REBUKE and EXHORT those who have FALSE Doctrine, spread HERESIES, and are just plain ENEMIES of Jesus Christ and are just POSING as Christians!Jesus LOVES ALL human beings, and He is NOT willing that any should perish. As “Ambassadors of Christ”, each one of us has the command to preach His Gospel, and to show the unsaved world around us what great LOVE Christ has for them, that He died for each one of us sinners. I especially relate to Paul’s description of himself as “Chief among sinners”, because I KNOW that I am like him in that way.
We are to love one another, especially those of the household of God.
I will leave you with this thought:Sometimes in our “zeal”, we trespass against others in our need to be “right” or “righteous”. A wise man or woman of God needs to be very SURE of the facts about another person before they judge that person or situation. I don’t know “beans” about Chuck Smith, ALL Calvary Chapel-affiliated Churches and their stance on Catholicism,Free-Masonry,& Heresies, and I do NOT believe that you do either, because it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to know about EVERY/ALL Calvary Chapel Affiliated Church! But I DO know the Word of God, and I intimately know Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior! James had something to say about judging the brethren:
James 4:11 “Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
James 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?”
Thomas wrote: ” “Abiding well enough” is a misnomer. You either abide or you don’t. “OK Jesus, I am abiding well enough in you. In fact, I am abiding better in you than most of the other scoundrels. So, you must bless me” kind of thing? ”
Yes, that’s the story of the two people that went up to the temple to pray. The one says, “I tithe, I pray, I do this and that, and I’m not like this loser next to me”.
And the “loser” says, “Lord, have mercy on me a sinner!”, and goes home justified.
S.E. thank you for your comments. I do think that thet history supports that God always has His remnant. There is the greater remnant across the world and there is the remnant within other groups. I believe that the “greater remnant” is called to pray for the other remnants in various places.
Yes, the ideal would be for these CC pastors to break ties with the organization/association. Some may be in the valley of decision to do so. It is the Holy Spirit Who will convict them. Perhaps with the passing of Smith this will result in the dissolution of CCs as such and pastors of like mind forming coalitions. That should be our prayer, should it not? This could be considered a watershed moment.
It is very hard to find a church that teaches sound doctrine. Many have abandoned the pretrib Rapture and have caved to the false “gospel” of Calvinism as well as other false teaching that has crept in unawares.
I think we could at least extend grace to these pastors S.E. mentioned who are standing for truth. There are bound to be others. From what I understand Chuck Smith was not solid on eternal security of the believer, but this has not been accepted across the board to best of my knowledge. Yes, Chuck Smith had feet of clay and he will now be judged by the One Who knew the status of his heart. Those I know who attend CCs absolutely are taught salvation by grace and not of works. As I said, a large number are FORMER Catholics.
Many pastors were called of God, not Chuck Smith. They landed in CC and learned how to teach the Word bobk by book, verse by verse rather than topically where one can cherry pick verses to suit one’s agenda. Expository teaching takes into account context and content.
Where pretrib has been trashed, CCs have held to the Blessed Hope. Where Calvinism has taken root, CCs have pretty much held the line against it. Does that excuse the rest? By no means! However, it does shed a ray of hope in a world that has been overtaken by darkness. Surely there has been a spiritual battle being waged here.
Many CC pastors are not fully aware of what is going on in other CCs as it is a full time job to watch over their own flock. There IS a lot of “hero worship” in the ranks for sure, but again, the remnant should be our focus at this time of transition especially.
Now is the time to PRAY, PRAY for those who will now be faced with seeking a new direction as the opportunity arises. PRAY that like-minded pastors will seek out one anothere to start a fresh work and leave the others to their own devices.
And I am sure that those you REBUKE also call you “Phariseeical,” rigid and unloving.
The entire tenet of my previous comment was to show that no matter how good, arrow straight and solidly sound in doctrine some of the pastors in that church may be, the church as a whole will be judged – as was the Ephesian Church. Hence my reference to Revelation 18:4. I really don’t think the few positive things that outweigh the warts in the church makes it good. When Catholics receive Jesus Christ as their Saviour, the very first thing they do is to leave the RCC. Some of them may have ended up in Calvary Chapel and what do they find? – a perpetuation of Roman Catholicism.
I quoted Paul. Does that make me judgmental, rigid, unloving and Pharisaical? Does that make me an evil speaker of others?
You wrote:
Are you comparing me with yourself? You are kind and loving; I am unloving, Pharasaical and judgmental. You share the Gospel; I don’t. You are a seed-planter, you water and harvest; I don’t. Well, bully for you. Your trumpet seems to be much bigger and louder than mine. Well again I must say, bully for you. By the way, I really think you have it wrong when you say: “those who have turned to Jesus Christ because of my “seed-planting,or watering,or harvesting”, did so because they KNEW how much I loved them!” I suggest you rather tell them how much God loves them. Your love is nothing compared to the love of God. Beware of “already having your reward.”
You wrote:
Please tell me where and how did I trespass against others? As far as I can recall I merely asked: “Where are all those Calvary Chapel-affiliated Church Pastors who do not compromise in regards to Catholicism, Freemasonry and other POISONS? Why aren’t they speaking out against these atrocities and warning and exhorting in love (2 Timothy 3:16) those who do?” I never said or suggested in the very slightest that they worship at the altar of Chuck Smith. I asked a question and expected a civil answer from a person who loves everyone except the rigid, unloving and Pharasaical type.
I really think you are overly emotional. Simmer down!
It is usually the little lambs who suffer most. They need solid teaching. Thank God for those pastors who love their flocks and refuse to feed them the drivel so common today.
Pastors, your love for Christ is determined by how you feed and tend to Christ sheep and lambs. If you feed them the wrong spiritual food it is time for you to resign and leave your church.
Often God has planted someone in a church congregtion who has discernment and the courage to approach the pastor respectfully and hold them accountable. The sign of a true shepherd is one who puts pride in position aside and listens and ruminates on it to see if it is from the Lord. Those who dismiss it out of hand and pridefully continue are those who should leave the pastorate but will not.
Sadly, too many have done the latter and the discerning sheep have no choice but to move on in search of a better pasture/shepherd. Pride is destructive and that must be why God hates it so much and it is the snare that so easily entangles us.
One of most important functions of an elder is to approach and if necessary confront a pastor who does not preach according the Word of God. They ought to be Bereans. Sadly, most of them are not.
Once again, we must thank God for those pastors who defend the faith. However, the Bible still says: “Can two walk together unless they agree?” (Amos 3:3). If they don’t agree they shouldn’t walk together
Peter CB
Purity will will never find. When the core doctrines of Christ are copmpromised it is best to move on. Why not begin your own little fellowship?
Core or essential doctrines would be Inerrancy of the Word, Virgin birth, Biblical Christology, Salvation by faith and not of works, Eternal Security of the Believer, Biblical baptism, Biblical eschatology, and probably others not mentioned that are foundational to the faith. Any church that is preaching the truth is a prime target for Satan and in today’s world it is often hard to discern from what is leaven and what is not and who is a wolf and who is not because truth is so often combined with error.
One area in which pastors often fail is to instruct their flocks to be on the alert and how to discern and warn against false teachers. This is unpopular and people don’t like their favorite ox gored.
Much work is needed here and those who are able and willing are so few. But that is how the Word says it would be. And so we have apostasy and the flourishing of fase teaching. Quite a dilemma. But we forge ahead and do our part in the strength of the Lord, expecting opposition at eery turn and often being misunderstood. Then it is time to turn to the prophets of old and see what they encountered and how discouraged they became. Pray and exhort, exhort and pray. A difficult work, but necessary. We must never forget that it is the Holy Spirit Who opens eyes and convicts hearts. We are merely the messengers.
Peter
You will never find purity in today’s churches BECAUSE we are in the last of the last days. All churches have been taken over by Satan and preach another gospel. Yes, there are some out there in the world that still hold fast to the truth, but I don’t know where they are. In my town, I have searched and there are none. I fellowship in a homecell group and even then you can’t believe the people that creep in to try change our truth to their error. It’s actually getting to the point now where I might not have a home group to go to anymore, as I am watching them change before my eyes.
SE
>> I KNOW for a FACT that ALL THREE of these men preach and warn AGAINST all of the things you mentioned! You might even be delightfully surprised to find out how much they HATE Apostasy in ALL of its evil forms!
Then why don’t they leave the Calvary Chapel organistation? What’s keeping them there?
>> I will be honest with you- you come across as very rigid and unloving, almost “Phariseeical”.
Good grief SE, you are taking it a bit far, his comments do not come across as unloving and calling him a Pharisee is going past the point of no return.
Our questions is this. If a CC pastor is so godly why is he still with the CC organisation that can be blatantly seen for what it is: false – why have they not broken away? What’s keeping him there, is is money? They should know very well what the CC organisation is all about.
Thomas and Deborah – thank you for replying.I have a lot of praying to do
Chuck Smith didn’t preach a Gnostic or JW version of he afterlife. This is a simple case of taking one message and interpreting a man’s whole theology rough one statement. I came to Christ at Chuck Smith’s church and my formative Christian growth took place under his teaching. Never was I given the understanding that our bodies didn’t resurrect. Smith’s point is that we receive renewed bodies. Saying we put off the old body and put on a new one doesn’t necessarily imply that this body is evil (as the Gnostics would say). Elsewhere he taught that about our physical resurrection plenty of times.
Be careful not to judge someone’s theology based on an isolated statement. The measure by which you judge it will be measured back to you.
I also marvel at the comments saying that people not be part of a church where the leaders have flaws. There is no such thing as a flawless Christian much less a flawless leader. The advice to leave a church because it isn’t perfect and to go start your own is crazy. Whatever you start by that criteria will also be flawed. As CS Lewis said, those who can see through everything end up seeing nothing.
It is one thing to have flaws but quite aother to allow heretics such as Freemasons to address the sheep of your flock.
Who was the Freemason?