NEW: PLEASE READ THE ADDENDUM AT THE END OF THIS ARTICLE: A Comparison between Calvinism and Islam on this topic.
In their zeal to defend God’s sovereignty many blogists have joined renowned Calvinists in their campaign against the so-called non-elect by emphatically declaring that Christians should hate non-believers (non-elect sinners). Before you read this article I suggest that you first read an open letter John Pedersen wrote to one of these more renowned Calvinists questioning his view on 2 Corinthians 5:21. Christ was not made sin in the sense of becoming a sinner or taking on Himself the character of a sinner. It simply means that He, being without sin and perfectly spotless, was treated like a sinner by his Father. Their explanation of this passage reminds one of the Word of Faith preachers’ blasphemous remark that Jesus took on Himself the character of Satan. Mr Pedersen eventually received an answer from the Calvinist who teaches that Christians (Calvinists) should hate the non-elect.
I received an answer from . . . . . . . . . :
Dear Mr Pedersen,
Enjoy yourself. I hope your delusions give you great satisfaction.
. . .
In another reply, the Calvinist who teaches his congregation to hate the non-elect, wrote the following.
John,
A few friends have told me that you are posting your “open letters” to me on one of those internet theological clogs where a few brilliant useless men display themselves for each other to admire. I am very thankful to have supplied you with something you can use to play with yourselves. Knock yourself out.
Straw men are built with brilliant ease With ugly, twisted, painted straw; And with the mighty pigmy’s sneeze, The pigmy sees his straw man fall.
“The ugly monster I have slain By my own humble, brilliant brain,” The bloated little pigmy screams, “Now all the praise I crave, I’ll gain.”
And other spiteful, little men Applaud and praise their pigmy friend; And thus the band of little men Proudly strut and swell with wind.
Such little imps, I have to tell, Like flies swarming elephants’ tails, Shall get no more than what they smell From elephants’ swishing tails.
If you want more material with which to pleasure yourself, everything I write and preach is posted on our websites listed below. Now, having taken far too much time ignoring you, you can write all you wish in the future to me. Nothing will be read and no replies will be given. But do have fun with yourself.
. . .
Please note that the sound in the above video is of a poor quality and the volume needs to be turned up quite a bit.
Before I continue to examine Paul Washer’s sermon in the light of Scripture, I need to remind you what the Calvinists believe in regard to sin and how it originated. Here then, from their own lips, follow the things they have said to vindicate their own interpretation of God’s absolute sovereignty. Please bear in mind the following serious warnings in Scripture before you read these grossly God dishonouring statements.
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20)
First off, let us begin with the Westminster Confession of Faith which says in Chapter 3 “Of God’s Eternal Decree:”
God from all eternity, did, from the most wise and holy counsel of his will, freely, and unchangeably ordain everything whatsoever comes to pass. (Emphasis added).
To emphasize the sovereignty of God even more, it is necessary to point out that everything is foreordained by God. Not only is God omnipotent, so that to him the nations are a drop in the bucket or as a fine coating of dust on weighing scales (Isaiah 40), but he also “works all things according to the counsel of his will” (Ephesians 1:11).
It is even biblical to say that God has foreordained sin. If sin was outside the plan of God, then not a single important affair of life would be ruled by God. For what action of man is perfectly good? All of history would then be outside of God’s foreordination: the fall of Adam, the crucifixion of Christ, the conquests of the Roman Empire, the battle of Hastings, the Reformation, the French Revolution, Waterloo, the American Revolution, the Civil War, two World Wars, presidential assassinations, racial violence, and the rise and fall of nations.
In two instances the Bible is especially clear in teaching that everything, including sin, is ordained by God: the selling of Joseph and the crucifixion of Christ.
Note that he says God foreordained (predetermined) sin and not foreknew/foresaw the sin, which according to James 1:13-15 He did not tempt any man to do. There is a vast difference between foreordain en foreknew. The latter clearly speaks of his awesome omniscience. In Isaiah 48: 3 God says:
I have declared (Note: God “declared” or “made known” and not “foreordained” or “predestined”) the former things from of old; yea, they went forth out of my mouth, and I showed them: suddenly I did them, and they came to pass. Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass; therefore I have declared it to thee from of old; before it came to pass I showed it thee; lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them. (Isaiah 48:3-5)
It simply means that God in his awesome omniscience foreknew/foresaw from eternities past what every single person would and would not do in his/her lifetime. Furthermore, it was in his sovereign will to use the self-enacted obstinacy, rebellion and sin of some people throughout history to accomplish his own divine purposes. He did not cause or foreordain the sin of those whom he used in this way (e.g. Pharaoh and Judas) but foreknew/foresaw their obstinate actions against Him even long before they had done it and used it, as I have said earlier, for his own divine purposes. Not so, says the Calvinist. God, foreknew because He has foreordained things to happen, even the sin of every single human being. They believe that every typing error of a secretary was foreknown by God because He has foreordained her to make those errors. Therefore, she has no jurisdiction, authority or control over her own errors. She not only makes them but she must make them. If she does not make those errors, she has overruled God’s foreordination and that would seriously jeopardize God’s sovereignty. But let us continue with a few more quotes by Calvinists on the divinely foreordained sin of man.
The decree, I admit, is, dreadful; and yet it is impossible to deny that God foreknew what the end of man was to be before he made him, and foreknew, because he had so ordained by his decree. Should any one here inveigh against the prescience of God, he does it rashly and unadvisedly. For why, pray, should it be made a charge against the heavenly Judge, that he was not ignorant of what was to happen? Thus, if there is any just or plausible complaint, it must be directed against predestination. Nor ought it to seem absurd when I say, that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity; but also at his own pleasure arranged it.” (Emphasis added)
3. How is it possible for God to DECREE that men SHOULD commit certain sins, hold them RESPONSIBLE in the committal of them, and adjudge them GUILTY because they committed them?
Let us now consider the extreme case of Judas. We hold that it is clear from Scripture that God decreed from all eternity that Judas should betray the Lord Jesus. If anyone should challenge this statement we refer him to the prophecy of Zechariah through whom God declared that His Son should be sold for “thirty pieces of silver” (Zechariah 11:12). As we have said in earlier pages, in prophecy God makes known what will be, and in making known what will be He is but revealing to us what He has ordained shall be. That Judas was the one through whom the prophecy of Zechariah was fulfilled needs not to be argued. But now the question we have to face is, Was Judas a responsible agent in fulfilling this decree of God? We reply that he was. Responsibility attaches mainly to the motive and intention of the one committing the act. (Emphasis added)
The Westminster Confessions state in chapter 3 entitled Of God’s Eternal Decree:
I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.
It follows that every single sin committed by every single human being who lived in the past, every single sin being committed by those who are now alive, and every single sin that will be committed by those who shall be living in the future were foreordained (decreed) by God and yet He is not the author of sin? Sin did not originate with Him and neither does his decree violate the will of men. The very character of a decree is that it must come to pass. If that which was decreed does not come to pass, the sovereignty of Him who decreed it is flawed and his godhood becomes questionable. Therefore Adam and Eve had no other option but to sin in spite of God’s stern warning that they would die if they took and ate of the fruit of the tree of good and evil. In fact, his decree that their sin had to come to pass, was borne out of his hatred for sinners and his wish that they should die. Does this shock you? Well, that’s the only conclusion one can come to when you believe that God ordained (decreed) whatsoever comes to pass. Muslims also believe in the absolute sovereignty of Allah. Listen to RC Sproul’s argument in this regard and see whether you can catch his subtle suggestion that Allah and the Christian God are one and the same.
Well, at least RC Sproul knows how to entertain his audience and make them laugh but what he says about the God of the Bible is no laughing matter, especially when he places Him on par with Allah. Listen again carefully to what he says.
Of whom is he speaking? – the God of the Bible or Allah? It can’t be Allah because Islam’s sovereign God has no son. To them it is sheer blasphemy to even suggest in the very slightest that Allah has a son. Sproul says in effect that the veracity of the sovereignty of God is determined neither by Calvinism, nor is it corroborated by orthodox Christianity or even the Bible. It is the general agreement on God’s absolute sovereignty between the major religions of the world – Judaism, Islam and classical Christianity – that attest to the sovereignty of God because if He is not sovereign He cannot be God to any of these religions. He then comes to the conclusion that the Arminians whom his students invited to listen to their illustrious professor are atheists because they worship a God who is not sovereign and therefore impotent. What does that tell you? Well, he’s saying that the Arminians do not fall in the same divine category of either one of these religions – Judaism, Islam or classical Christianity because they are atheists.
If God’s absolute authority and sovereignty is constituted by his divine foreordination of whatsoever comes to pass, then it follows that the 50 students who did not agree with RC Sproul are Arminians by divine design and predestination. Therefore RC Sproul who is supposed to honor and respect God’s sovereign decrees has no right whatsoever to call them atheists. What God has decreed cannot be rescinded, overturned or changed. Any disregard for God’s sovereignty is blasphemy and yet RC Sproul glibly calls the 50 students atheists whom God Himself has ordained to be Arminians. Shame on you RC. You are not practicing what you’re preaching.
Paul Washer
Let us now focus our attention on Paul Washers’ sermon “God hates sinners” against the backdrop of what I have already said about the Calvinists’ view of sin and its origin. The question we need to ask is: why does Paul Washer elaborate on God’s demonstration of his divine love for the lost and immediately after that switches to a discussion about God’s hatred of the sinner? You will recall that he said:
God Himself is just and God is perfect and consistent in all his attributes. In order to pardon the wicked, the justice of God must first be satisfied and the wrath of God appeased. Something must – and this is a very important word, you can look it up in the dictionary – someone must interpose; someone must intervene; someone must do something. And being there’s only two parties, one being God and the other man, we put no hope in man. God Himself must intervene. To satisfy his justice, to appease his wrath and make it possible to express his love in salvation for wicked men.
It is very important to take note of a key phrase in the above quote which is: “to express his love in salvation for wicked men. Of whom is Paul Washer speaking when he specifically refers to “his love in salvation?” To answer the question we need to look at another video. Here again the sound is poor but fortunately the author supplied some text to it.
To make it easier I have transliterated what is said in the above video here:
Young man: I got a question, I don’t understand, I’ve been raised Southern Baptist my whole life and I’m searching for the Truth really hard in my life right now. I’m in seminary and I want to understand the doctrine of election and things like that. And my roommate’s a Calvinist and he’s been kind of trying to teach me a little bit but I want to know the Truth and they tell me that you’re the guy. You know. Is there any way that you can, you know . . . anything that you can [say to help me understand this more clearly?]
Paul Washer: I can say something but let me . . . if you will go to my pastor’s website “Anchored in Truth” [http://www.anchoredintruth.ord/resources/audio/ephesians]. He has a series of sermons called “Election Plain and Simple” – some of the best you will ever hear. What it all comes down to is this. You have to answer one question: is man radically depraved? That’s the only question you have to ask because if he is, if he is truly dead in his sin, if he truly hates God, if all men are equally evil and they are, then the question is, how are you standing here right now believing God while some of your friends who are more moral than you still hate Him?(Thomas comments: Paul Washer’s exegesis of man’s fallen nature is so utterly depraved that he constantly rips God’s Word to pieces. We learn from Acts 10:22 that the Roman Centurion, Cornelius, was an upright and God-fearing man and that he regularly attended the synagogue in Jerusalem. And yet, Cornelius was not a saved man [Acts 11:14] when he sent some of his men to summon Peter to his home. Now that, my dear friends, is the epitome of hatred. Not even Paul Washer’s description of man’s hatred of God equals Cornelius’ hatred of God.) What happened? If you say you opened up your heart I’ll say, no you didn’t because the Bible said God opened Lydia’s heart. If you say, well I repented, well repentance is an evangelical grace in all the confessions, that means it comes from God as a gift. If you say: “Well I believe Ephesians 2,” it also is a gift.
Young man: I know the Bible says that no man can come to God unless he is drawn by God. I know that well but my question is: Is the offer of salvation for all men or did God sit back in eternity and say: “Its for you, you, you and you. And you, you, you, you are going to go to hell.”
Paul Washer: See, first of all, you’re problem is this. Let’s say there’s no election. None. Ok, let’s just start fresh and say there’s no election. Alright. Now . . . . let’s say men are radically depraved and no man can come to God unless God draws him. So, God comes down to every man and says: Anyone who will bow their knee to me, anyone who will accept my Son as their Savior, will be saved. Since every man is radically depraved, they all hate God. they all blaspheme Him, walk away and go to hell. The whole world goes to hell. Is that God’s fault? Alright, let’s say that really is the reality. Let’s say the Bible is true and that men hate God that much. So who is going to get saved? Absolutely no one! And if God saved no one because everyone is evil and rejects Him, is God wrong in doing that? No, so that is what you’ve got without election – you’ve got the whole world hating God and going to hell. That’s it! And the other option is this. Among these evil people, for his own glory and to demonstrate his own kindness before the foundation of the earth He chooses a group of men out of them to demonstrate his glory in them. Is that wrong? Did he rip the other men off? What did He do? You’ve got two choices. God saves a group of people by his own sovereignty or everybody goes to hell. Everybody because men are that evil. See, your problem . . . see what you need to realize is this. if God, right now, were to throw open the gates of hell and say: Everyone who wants out of hell, the only thing you have to do is bow your knee to me and recognize my lordship, they’ll slam the door and stay in hell. See, what you don’t realize about the humanistic Christianity in America. You don’t realize that men are really evil. They really are evil.
If the rich man in hell (Luke 16:19-31), as evil and depraved as he may have been, would have wanted to slam the gates of hell shut in the face of an invitation to bow the knee before Jesus, he would never have begged Abraham to send someone from the dead to warn his five brothers lest they too should end up in hell. In any case, we learn from Philippians 2:9 and 11 that every knee shall bow at the Name of Jesus Christ and every tongue confess that He is Lord. It does not mean that everyone is going to be saved but that everyone shall bow the knee and confess whether they like it or not. No one is going to be given the option to bow or not to bow or to confess or not to confess.
Paul Washer tells us loud and clear who the wicked are to whom God expresses his love in salvation. Yep! you’ve guessed it – THE ELECT ONLY! The obvious conclusion to make is that the sinners whom God hates are the non-elect for they have no hope whatsoever for God to express his love in salvation toward them. Yes! He loves them but not unto salvation because Jesus did not die for them on the cross. Do you remember these blasphemous remarks? They are hopelessly irredeemable because if they’d been objects of his love in salvation and therefore redeemable it would have jeopardized God’s absolute sovereignty who decreed before the foundation of the world that they would glorify Him through their eternal destruction in hell. There is only one problem: If God hates sinners, He would have hated even the elect (amongst whom are Paul Washer, John MacArthur, John Piper, Marc Driscoll etc.). Surely the Bible declares that he who says that he has no sin is a liar and a self-deceiver and the word and the truth is not in him (1 John 1:8 and 9). If the elect are sinners, which they cannot and do not deny, then God must hate them as well. Nevertheless, Paul Washer declares quite frankly that God expresses his love in salvation only to the elect because they are the only ones being saved.
Undoubtedly scripture after scripture after scripture in the Bible tells us that God’s hatred is manifest against wickedness. I don’t think anyone would be able to argue against that. In fact we don’t have to look any further than the cross of Jesus Christ to realize how much God hates sin and wickedness. Would it be wrong to quote John 3:16 as follows? “For God so hated sin and wickedness, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16). I don’t think Paul Washer would object to my slight alteration of the most famous verse in the Bible. He already said it in so many words in the introduction to his sermon. However, can we in accordance with Washer’s claim that God hates sinners change the same verse to the following? “For God so hated sinners and the wicked that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Now that’s a complete misnomer and yet Paul Washer says with boldness that God hates sinners. In order to substantiate his claim that the well-known maxim “God hates sin but loves the sinner” is wrong, he takes his audience to Psalm 5, but before I get into that I must first draw your attention to the following observation I made.
Paul Washer’s examples are inconsistent with what he says in regard to the maxim “God hates sin but loves the sinner.” He uses three examples – he loves babies but hates abortion; he loves the Jews but hates the holocaust; he loves African Americans but hates slavery. This is exactly what the maxim says: “God hates sin but LOVES the sinner.” Washer’s examples actually substantiate the maxim. If Paul Washer wished to be consistent in his claim that God hates sinners and not only their sins, he should have said “He hates babies as much as He hates abortion (for babies are born in sin),”He hates the Jews as much as He hated Hitler (for the Jews consistently fell into idolatry and rejected God’s Son)” and “He hates African Americans as much as He hates slavery (for the African Americans are also sinners).”
Of course God hates wickedness and iniquity.
Nevertheless Paul Washer’s refutation of the maxim “God hates the sin but loves the sinner” cannot be substantiated by “God loves the Jew but hates the holocaust,” “God loves babies but hates abortion,” or “God loves African Americans but hates slavery.” In fact, Paul Washer’s arguments do not refute the maxim “God hates sin but loves the sinner” but confirms it. Yes! again, scripture after scripture after scripture tells us that God hates wickedness (the deed). If it were true that He did not only hate the deed (sin) but also the doer (sinner) Paul Washer should have said: “Scripture after scripture, after scripture in the Bible tells us that God hates the wicked.” Ah, but he does say it and verifies it from one place in scripture (not with scripture after scripture after scripture in the Bible). And this brings us to his exegesis of Psalm 5 and verse 5: “The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers.” So you see God does not only hate the sin but also the sinner. That’s what it says, doesn’t it? Well, if you look at the entire Psalm in its proper context, you would understand this verse a little better.
As in many of his other Psalms David laments the unrelenting pursuit of those who sought to kill him. Some of them used deceit and trickery to draw him into their net with an intent to kill him. It was these boastful and presumptuous evildoers whose deeds God found detestable because they would not shrink from murder and deceit. They were in fact habitual murderers and deceivers whose aim it was to shed the blood of an innocent man. I continue to marvel at many prominent Calvinists who idolize a murderer who never shrunk from the shedding of blood.
In response to the question who his favorite theologian outside of the Bible is, John MacArthur says without any hesitation in this video that John Calvin is one of his primary models in theology. In fact, I don’t think any of the other major proponents of Calvinism would deny that John Calvin is their main man. However, John MacArthur’s real and total hero is Paul of Tarsus. But wasn’t he also a murderer, just like John Calvin? Well yes, whilst he was a non-believer he persecuted many Christians and approved the murder of Stephen but he never shed any blood after his salvation, which can not be said of John Calvin. Paul of Tarsus called himself the chief of sinners because he persecuted the Christians. He showed real remorse for his former life. John Calvin, on the other hand, believed he was doing God a favor when he had many “heretics” burnt at the stake. For those of you who would want to research John Calvin’s murderous activities, I give the following links.
Paul Washer is correct in saying that God hates sinners but what kind of sinners does He find detestable? Those who do not and did not shrink from shedding the blood of their fellow men, like John Calvin.
ADDENDUM
William Lane Craig sent me an email in which he superbly answers a Christian’s question on “unconditional love.” Please note his concluding words.
Question:Dear Dr. Craig,As a Christian concerned with providing sound reasons for my own faith, I appreciate your blog, podcast, and contributions to philosophy of religion. With that being said, in your Q&A #123, you argued that the Islamic conception of God is morally inadequate. Near the end of your post, you stated that:”God’s love is impartial, universal, and unconditional … [and] that a morally perfect being would love people impartially, all people, and without strings attached. But Allah has no love at all for unbelievers. This is not just a difference of degree, but of night and day!”I agree that love, as you assert, is a “greater-making property.” However, while the Bible does say that God is all-loving (cf. the passages you noted concerning the prodigal son and the lost sheep), it does not say that God necessarily loves unbelievers, or sinners. On the contrary, several Old Testament passages state unambiguously that God hates sinners. Consider the following:
Psalm 5:5, “The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,” Psalm 11:5, “The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates.” Lev. 20:23, “Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them.” Prov. 6:16-19, “There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers.” Hosea 9:15, “All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels.”
How do you account for these verses, given your statement that “Jesus taught God’s unconditional love for sinners?” What effect do these verses have for your argument regarding the moral superiority of the Christian conception of God?
Bridger USA
Dr. Craig responds:
In my debate with the Muslim apologist Shabir Ally, he brought up precisely the same scriptural passages in refutation of my claim that the God of the Bible, unlike the God of the Qur’an, has unconditional love for all people.
I think it’s not hard to explain these passages in light of Scripture’s teaching that God loves sinners. Notice that almost all of them come from poetic passages. They are religious hyperbole expressing God’s hatred of evil and the wicked acts people commit. It would be a hermeneutical mistake to press them literally as statements of Christian doctrine.
Drawing hyperbolic, black-and-white dichotomies was a common semitic idiom. For example, “I have loved Jacob, but I have hated Esau” (Malachi 1.2-3; cf. Romans 9.13) is a way of saying that God has chosen Jacob and not Esau. When Jesus says, “Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14.26), he means that if one prioritizes even one’s most cherished loved ones above Jesus, one’s discipleship is incomplete-a claim which is radical enough without taking it literally!
Over against these few hyperbolic passages stands the clear doctrinal teaching of Jesus and the apostles that God loves all persons, even sinners. Take the time to read and meditate on Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount in the Gospel of Matthew 5-7. Jesus said:
You heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brethren, what more you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5.43-48).
God is our model in loving others. We are to love even our enemies. That is how God loves. Paul later wrote, “God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us. . . . while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son” (Romans 5. 8,10). Our love is to be impartial, just as God showers good upon the evil and righteous alike. Our love is to be universal, not reserved just for a few. Our heavenly Father is perfect, and so He loves perfectly.
How wonderful God is! As I reflected on Jesus’ words, it struck me forcefully that Allah’s love as described in the Qur’an rises no higher than the love exhibited by pagans and tax collectors! It is conditional, partial, and has to be earned. But the love of God our heavenly Father is unconditional, impartial, and universal.
Now it did occur to me that I was perhaps being unfair to the Muslim. Perhaps he, too, could say that the Qur’anic passages about God’s not loving unbelievers and sinners are poetic and hyperbolic. After all, doesn’t the Qur’an affirm that God is “the All-Compassionate, the All-Merciful”? But the problem with that interpretation is that there just aren’t any comparable Qur’anic passages stating that God loves all people or that He loves unbelievers and sinners. Not one! Over and over again the Qur’an assures us of God’s love for those who submit to Him and say the confession and do His will, but He has no love for sinners and unbelievers. Whenever the Qur’an speaks of God’s attitude toward unbelievers, it tells us in no uncertain terms that He does not love them. So while I would welcome Muslims’ affirmation of God’s unconditional love for all people, I think that such an affirmation would represent a revision of the Qur’anic conception of God rather than a correct interpretation of Qur’anic teaching.
According to the Qur’an, then, God does not love the very people that the Bible says God loves so much that He gave his only Son to die for them (John 3.16). God loves the world and sent Jesus to die for the world, which is the unbelieving mass of mankind. Praise be to God!
Frankly, Bridger, I’m appalled at the fact that some Christians have an understanding of God’s love which is comparable to that of the Qur’an. They actually think that God does not love all people unconditionally. They have failed to understand something so fundamental and basic to Christian discipleship: God’s wonderful love.
Fancy that: Calvinists quote Scripture after Scripture after Scripture to prove that God hates sinners, especially those who love violence (Psalm 11:5) and shed innocent blood (Proverbs 6:16-19). And yet they idolize John Calvin whom God hates for his sins of violence and the shedding of innocent blood. Indeed God warns:
Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked. (Exodus 23:7).
Calvinism is replete with false matters and John Calvin slayed both the innocent and the righteous.
Tom Lessing is the author of the above article.
Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.
Nope! God loves Calvinists because it is not his will that they should perish (2 Peter 3:9). If you hate Calvinists you should repent of your evil sin and ask God for his forgiveness because you are grossly disobeying Him.
If God is the very essence of love, which of course HE IS, and if He lives in you, you cannot do otherwise but love even your worst enemy. It is impossible not to love others if God lives in you.
reyjaobs, I am no friend of Calvinism. But my best friend is a Calvinist. When I saw your comment of “God hates Calvinist” my heart skipped a beat. That is the very same attitude some Calvinists have towards those of us who are not Calvinist.
If God hated Calvinists then why should He stop at that? Perhaps then He hates people that are disabled like Deborah and myself. Perhaps He hates people that hate Calvinists. Perhaps then He really hates all of us and is going to send us to hell even though we have received Jesus as Savior.
Read the verses I put here for you.
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Luke 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Luke6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 1st John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 1st John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
There are Calvinists that are truly Born Again just as I know some Catholic people that have been Born Again. Yes, they are in the wrong churches. But…if we hate saved Calvinist, lost Calvinists, then we are guilty of HATE. Read above what the Apostle John says about hate.
Why did the Protestant Reformers Love Each Other So much? 1.Luther on Zwingli and His Followers
Zwingli was greedy of honour . . . he had learnt nothing from me . . . Oecolampadius thought himself too learned to listen to me or to learn from me. (Grisar, IV, 309; in Table Talk, 1540) Zwinglians . . . are fighting against God and the sacraments as the most inveterate enemies of the Divine Word. (Janssen, V, 220-221; LL, III, 454-456) It would be better to announce eternal damnation than salvation after the style of Zwingli or Oecolampadius. (Daniel-Rops, 85) The Zwinglians believed that the Eucharist was wholly symbolic (perhaps the majority position of Protestants today). Hence, whoever believes the same would have had the foregoing said about them by Dr. Luther, who firmly held to consubstantiation, i.e., the actual Body and Blood of Christ is present in the communion along with the bread and wine.
2. Luther on Bucer
They think much of themselves, which, indeed, is the cause and wellspring of all heresies . . . Thus Zwingli and Bucer now put forward a new doctrine . . . So dangerous a thing is pride in the clergy. A gossip . . . a miscreant through and through . . . I trust him not at all, for Paul says [Titus 3:10] ‘A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid.
3.) Calvin on Luther and Lutherans
What to think of Luther I know not . . . with his firmness there is mixed up a good deal of obstinacy . . . Nothing can be safe as long as that rage for contention shall agitate us . . . Luther . . . will never be able to join along with us in . . . the pure truth of God. For he has sinned against it not only from vainglory . . . but also from ignorance and the grossest extravagance. For what absurdities he pawned upon us . . . when he said the bread is the very body! . . . a very foul error. What can I say of the partisans of that cause? Do they not romance more wildly than Marcion respecting the body of Christ? . . . Wherefore if you have an influence or authority over Martin, use it . . . that he himself submit to the truth which he is now manifestly attacking . . . Contrive that Luther . . . cease to bear himself so imperiously. I am carefully on the watch that Lutheranism gain no ground, nor be introduced into France. The best means . . . for checking the evil would be that the confession written by me . . . should be published.
4. Melanchthon on Zwingli The timid Melanchthon launched at least one salvo against Zwingli: Zwingli says almost nothing about Christian sanctity. He simply follows the Pelagians, the Papists and the philosophers.
5. Luther on Protestant “Heretics”
Heresiarchs . . . remain obdurate in their own conceit. They allow none to find fault with them and brook no opposition. This is the sin against the Holy Ghost for which there is no forgiveness. (Grisar, VI, 282; WA, vol. 19, 609 ff.) Those are heretics and apostates who follow their own ideas rather than the common tradition of Christendom, who . . . out of pure wantonness, invent new ways and methods. (Grisar, VI, 282-283; WA, VII, 394) Grisar adds: In his frame of mind it became at last an impossibility for him to realise that his hostility and intolerance towards ‘heretics’ within his fold could redound on himself. (Grisar, VI, 283) We must needs decry the fanatics as damned . . . They actually dare to pick holes in our doctrine; ah, the scoundrelly rabble do a great injury to our Evangel. (Grisar, VI, 289; EA, vol. 61, 8 ff.) I am on the heels of the Sacramentaries and the Anabaptists; . . . I shall challenge them to fight; and I shall trample them all underfoot. (Daniel-Rops, 86) “Sacramentarians” or “Sacramentaries ” were those who denied the Real Presence in the Eucharist (e.g., Zwingli). Needless to say, Scripture condemns conceit: Romans 12:16: . . . “condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.” (See also Proverbs 3:7, Romans 11:20, 12:3, 1st Corinthians 3:18, 8:2, Ephesians 2:9).
JMO: they were all heretics, blasphemers, & murderers.
God hates CALVINISM or ANY doctrine that gives a false gospel! Jesus died for sinners because He loves them, but He HATES evil and wickedness and sin of every variety because He is holy and just.
We should share His burden for the lost no matter what ensnares them. Calvinism is one of Satan’s most cleverest deceptions and yet so many give it a pass and refuse to call it out for what it is. Those who dare to speak out against it, may the Lord give you courage to keep on despite the naysayers.
Amen Redeemed. Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. That is why Jesus came. Who were the lost? ALL of us at one time. He didn’t come to seek and save the elect. The lost get saved and instantly become the elect. Who did God elect? Those that followed the “elected plan” of God for salvation.
Sometimes we get so focused on exposing heresy that we don’t see past the heresy to see the person, the lost person behind the heresy. I love this web site. The Deb-ster is the heresy terminator. She also knows that God hates the heresy but loves the heretic. He offers true salvation even to heretics. Isn’t that what grace and mercy are about? I can think of a lot of heresies, heretics and assorted other sinners that I have known. One even threatened to kill a member of my family and he was also my pastor at the time. She attempted to run him over with her car in a parking lot. I caught her hiding in the church bathroom one night. I confronted her and threw her out. There was an No Trespass order from the Sheriff’s Office for her to not come to the church. She ended up being arrested. I said all that to say, as mentally ill as that woman is, I do not hate her, nor does my family member. I do hate all of the trouble and grief she caused my family, but I do not hate her.
Hate never won anyone to Jesus Christ. Hate in our hearts can rob us of sweet fellowship with the Lord. There is no room for hate in the heart that is occupied by the Holy Spirit.
If Jesus Christ could save us then he can save any one.
God hates Calvinists so long as they persist in Calvinism. Of course he loves them and desires they repent and cease being Calvinists. But so long as they remain Calvinists he hates them, especially those who make it their life mission to destroy Christianity by turning all Christians either into Calvinists or atheists using Romans 9 as a blunt weapon to beat their skulls open with.
Hmmm, that is a very confusing sentence… “God hates Calvinists so long as they persist in Calvinism. Of course he loves them” lol. Rey, God loves the person, but he hates the doctrine of Calvinism. The word Calvinist is synonymous with ‘the person’ so you can’t say God hates Calvinists. It’s the SIN He hates.
Reyjacobs, you do not understand the nature and character of the Lord our God. The love of God transcends the deepest and most profound love that we as mere mortals can express or comprehend.
The love of God drew up His plan of salvation, the cost of which is beyond our ability to understand, but to just simply accept. But the holiness of God cannot tolerate sin whatever form it takes. That does not negate His love for the sinner and His desire that he be reborn and redeemed. God does not hate people who are His precious creation – but He must punish sin. His unfathomable love has provided a path to forgiveness. His Holy Spirit convicts and seeks to save. God is withholding His wrath against sin to allow more to be saved – He is not willing that any be lost.
Reyjacobs, I fear that if you think God hates the Calvinist, that justifies you to do the same. That is no better than the attitude of the Calvinist/Reformed as spelled out in this article. The devilish doctrine needs to be exposed for the sake of even those who have been ensnared by it as well as those whom they may ensnare and draw into it.
Christ shed His blood for sinners, which includes every one of us. We should hate the sin that put our Savior on the cross, but demonstrate the divine love that sent Him willingly and voluntarily there as the perfect and only acceptable sacrifice for our sin.
Reyjacob, do you understand the plan of salvation? At the top of this website there is a full and complete explanation of it – “Charge that to My Account” and I encourage you to peruse it and pray over it. May the Lord bless you and lead you into all truth.
You equate God with hate. I am truly sad for you. Do you not understand the simplest and greatest verse of Gods love in the Bible, John 3:16 For God so LOVED THE WORLD…that means all of the world and it includes Muslims, Catholics, Mormons, Methodists, Baptists, Hindus, sinners of any religion, denomination, atheist, agnostics, Satanists, but He hates Calvinists. That is a sick and twisted portrayal of Jehovah God. It is just as twisted as Calvinism.
You have let YOUR hatred, not for CALVINISM, but Calvinist cloud your mind, heart, and discernment if you have the gift of discernment. We all in Gods family would do well to ourselves to do a study on the Love of God as best we can understand it.
rejacobs, is there anything that God hates? Yes, He hates SIN. Sin separated God from His creation, man. God created us for fellowship with Him. He created us to know him, to make Him known and thereby Glorify Him. The one true God who IS love doesn’t hate Calvinists. But for some reason you will not let yourself understand the very part of God that God says He is…God is Love. Get yourself a good King James Bible and read John 3:16 over and over. Ask the Holy Spirit to teach you what that verse really means. Then read it over and over again.
I pray you find peace instead of hatred for Calvinist.
reyjacobs wrote:
God hates Calvinists so long as they persist in Calvinism. Of course he loves them and desires they repent and cease being Calvinists. But so long as they remain Calvinists he hates them, especially those who make it their life mission to destroy Christianity by turning all Christians either into Calvinists or atheists using Romans 9 as a blunt weapon to beat their skulls open with.
I wonder if reyjacobs’ comment was just a blip in either logic or in language. Rey’s second and third sentences contradict each other, as Redeemed, Sharon and Debs have virtually pointed out. I would reckon then that Rey meant that God hates Calvinism though not Calvinists but expressed it badly. As the third sentence seems to be a retraction of the second, that’s surely what Rey must have meant. Otherwise it would not make any sense. If Jesus Christ want’s us to love our enemies–and He does [Matt 5:44]–surely He loves His enemies too. He died for them after all.
God hates Calvinists so long as they persist in Calvinism. Of course he loves them and desires they repent and cease being Calvinists. But so long as they remain Calvinists he hates them, especially those who make it their life mission to destroy Christianity by turning all Christians either into Calvinists or atheists using Romans 9 as a blunt weapon to beat their skulls open with.
What you are saying in reality is that God hates sinners as long as they remain lost sinners. (John 3:16).
I do not think the question should be Calvinism or not, but rather Bible or not. After all, God chose Abel. He chose Seth, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Jacob (but not Esau). He chose Jeremiah and Jonah and John the baptist. The point is that we are all hung up on personal salvation opposed to the Kingdom of God that is supposed to be manifest sometime in the near future on earth. Jesus wants a city on a hill as a beacon for the nations; an example to follow. It’s not about the here-after in heaven, but about the here-after on earth. That is why God chose for Himself a NATION – Israel. The world cannot follow the example of a single human being. That’s impossible! God wants nations to follow Him and for that He needs a national example. Yes, we need to be saved or be condemned to hell, but… that benefits me only. We need to understand what God had in mind when He did His choosing. It is all about Him in his Kingship on earth and a lot less about you and me and our salvation.
It is all about Him in his Kingship on earth and a lot less about you and me and our salvation.
You sound so much like the Emergent fraternity who believe and proclaim the false Gospel that Jesus did not come to the earth to save sinners but to establish his kingdom on earth, here and now. In his book “The Purpose Driven Church” Rick Warren declares over and over that it is not about you. And now, you join the chorus by saying it is a “lot less about you and me and our salvation.” Really? That’s just another ploy of the devil to belittle and malign the cross of Jesus Christ.
If it’s not about you and me and our salvation what on earth was Jesus doing on the cross? May I ask you a few questions? Do you practice contemplative prayer? Do you attend retreats? Do you walk the labyrinth? I sincerely hope not because that’s the way the emergents believe they can bring the Kingdom of God on earth. It is a cross-less and blood-less gospel which is no gospel at all. Indeed, it is a gospel; that cannot save and henceforth they say “it is not about you and me and our salvation.”
Dear Thomas You may ask questions and my answers are: No, no and no. I am a student of the Word and a seeker of truth. And I absolutely am not belittling the cross of Jesus. All that I am saying is that Jesus bought for Himself a kingdom with His blood and not merely a bunch of individuals who want to follow Him. The whole of Biblical history and all prophecy has do with this truth – that there are 2 kingdoms. The kingdom of light and the kingdom of darkness and we belong in either the one or the other. Now here’s the greatest thing that the church for the past 40-odd years have missed… That a nation can serve God nationally! That does not mean that every individual in that nation is saved, but that the nation is run according to the laws in the Bible and that nationally there is a belief and confession that Jesus Christ is the Lord and King of that specific nation. That nation is now under God’s command and God blesses them. They become the proverbial ‘city upon a hill’. Two nations who have been such God fearing nations in the past 100 years have been South Africa (before the sell out), and the USA (before the 60’s).
We all as Christians agree that Jesus is going to set up His kingdom upon earth. The Bible is very clear about that. The one thing which is still a bit vague in our minds is exactly HOW He is going to accomplish that. Since we are people who live in mortal bodies, on a physical earth, we can safely say that according to the scriptures something physical must happen. The Bible speaks of the revealing of the man of sin which must happen first before the end comes. Well, that is happening now; and I believe that the ‘end’ which must come, means the end of the current dispensation which started when the Spirit was poured out for the first time – the dispensation of grace. As I understand, the next dispensation will be one of judgement and then the 1000 year reign of Christ. This reign of Christ will be the physical manifestation of the heavenly kingdom upon earth.
You may ask questions and my answers are: No, no and no. I am a student of the Word and a seeker of truth. And I absolutely am not belittling the cross of Jesus. All that I am saying is that Jesus bought for Himself a kingdom with His blood and not merely a bunch of individuals who want to follow Him.
Your introductory words show that you either have a very vague idea of what salvation is or a very vague idea of what his KIngdom is, or both.
Where in Scripture does it say Jesus bought for Himself a kingdom with his blood? God says:
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. (Lev 17:11)
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. (Heb 9:22)
Christ’s blood was shed for the remission of sins. Since when did his Kingdom sin?
Yes, Jesus is going to set up his Kingdom on earth. He and He alone can and will do it when He returns. The abominable Kingdom- Now false teachers believe they can and ought to do it before Jesus can return. The are not working for the Kingdom of Christ; they are preparing the way for the abominable kingdom of antichrist.
I’m sorry, Thomas. I never did answer your questions.
You ask: Since when did his kingdom sin?
My answer: In Adam when Adam rebelled against God’s authority did the kingdom sin.
You ask: Where in the scriptures does it say Jesus bought for Himself a kingdom with His blood?
My answer: A kingdom cannot consist out of a few people. To have a kingdom, a king needs a country, a subject people, a law and a seal. We know that God has a country for the earth is the Lords and the fullness thereof; we know that God has a law as per the 10 commandments; we know that God has a seal which is the Holy Spirit and the Sabbath. The only thing which needed to be bought back since the fall of man is man himself.
I totally agree with you that the Kingdom Now teachings are absolutely false. I do however understand that the Kingdom of God will come through a people (Israel), subjecting themselves to God and then, being God’s tool, bring judgment upon those who are the seed of Satan, as it says in Obadiah 1:17-21.
Thank you for the opportunity to explain my view and understanding of the scriptures.
You know as well as I that the Kingdom of God is not present on earth yet. Had it already been here we wouldn’t have to pray “Let thy Kingdom come.” And so too we wouldn’t need to pray “let thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven” when everyone was already doing his will 100%. How can something that is not on earth yet, sin? And how can God’s Kingdom which is already in heaven, sin?
I’m sorry Sheugnet, but you are talking nonsense and I’m really not in the mood to listen to a few childish remqarks.
To Deborah. No, I am not an Adventist nor do I follow Hebrew Roots. I am an Afrikaans Boervrou and that’s all. By the gracious in-working of the Holy Spirit I desire to keep God’s law. It is therefor no longer a ‘work’, but a consequence.
I remember when I was in the Worldwide Church of God, Debs. They had the idea that you could keep the law–in the Spirit!! The hierarchy maintained that though the law could not be kept in all its demands the main parts could be. I’m not kidding. They claimed that the 10 commandments, the Passover, Day of Atonement, and the Feast of Tabernacles (Succoth) could be kept in the spirit and therefore the law was still incumbent upon us. I think the SDAs have a similar slant on it, at least regarding the Sabbath. They also had a good retort–but not an answer–for Galatians. It belonged to their list of “Difficult Scriptures”! They just couldn’t admit they were wrong. It’s a bit like trying to prove to someone that 1+1=2 when they are convinced 1+1=3.
Malachi 1:1,3 – The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
God says it all right here and we should never strive to be like Esau who hated God and his gifts.
Malachi 1:1,3 – The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
God says it all right here and we should never strive to be like Esau who hated God and his gifts.
Come on Chaplain, you should know better than that (John 3:10). You ought to know by now that the Holy Spirit often uses forceful language to emphasize a truth he wants to bring across. For instance, in Luke 14:26 Jesus said: “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” How can this be when Paul admonishes husbands to love their wives in the very same way Christ loves his church? (Ephesians 5:25). Do you really think Jesus would contradict himself when He personally gave the Gospel to Paul? It simply means that your love for God must be so overwhelmingly intense that your love for your wife should seem like something equal to hatred. Do you hate your wife, Chaplain? If you do, please don’t tell her without explaining to her the meaning of Luke 14:26.
In any case, Malachi does not refer to the individuals, Jacob and Esau, but to the two nations they represent (Genesis 5:23). If God hated the nation that came from Esau then the entire nation would be reprobate (non-elect) and bound for hell. Similarly, if God loved Jacob then the entire nation of Israel would have been elected unto salvation and irretrievably bound for heaven. That’s ridiculous. Jesus Himself said that the great majority of the Jews are bound for hell and only a remnant will be saved (Matthew 8:12).
Calvinists who quote Malachi 1:1,3 and Romans 9:13 are really getting a bit boring. The sad thing is that Calvinists do not want to listen to reason. They are bent on teaching that God hates sinners. That’s pure blasphemy. Stop your nonsense and repent.
Thomas Lessing (Watch and Pray / Waak en Bid) wrote:
Malachi 1:1,3 – The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
God says it all right here and we should never strive to be like Esau who hated God and his gifts.
Come on Chaplain, you should know better than that (John 3:10). You ought to know by now that the Holy Spirit often uses forceful language to emphasize a truth he wants to bring across. For instance, in Luke 14:26 Jesus said: “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” How can this be when Paul admonishes husbands to love their wives in the very same way Christ loves his church? (Ephesians 5:25). Do you really think Jesus would contradict himself when He personally gave the Gospel to Paul? It simply means that your love for God must be so overwhelmingly intense that your love for your wife should seem like something equal to hatred. Do you hate your wife, Chaplain? If you do, please don’t tell her without explaining to her the meaning of Luke 14:26.
In any case, Malachi does not refer to the individuals, Jacob and Esau, but to the two nations they represent (Genesis 5:23). If God hated the nation that came from Esau then the entire nation would be reprobate (non-elect) and bound for hell. Similarly, if God loved Jacob then the entire nation of Israel would have been elected unto salvation and irretrievably bound for heaven. That’s ridiculous. Jesus Himself said that the great majority of the Jews are bound for hell and only a remnant will be saved (Matthew 8:12).
Calvinists who quote Malachi 1:1,3 and Romans 9:13 are really getting a bit boring. The sad thing is that Calvinists do not want to listen to reason. They are bent on teaching that God hates sinners. That’s pure blasphemy. Stop your nonsense and repent.
Chaplain Bob Walker wrote:
I never said God hates ALL SINNERS or he would hate me.
Difference between you and I is I believe the Bible and what it says.
But I shall let you argue with the Lord and maybe you can decide if you wish to love Satan.
I never said God hates ALL SINNERS or he would hate me.
Difference between you and I is I believe the Bible and what it says.
But I shall let you argue with the Lord and maybe you can decide if you wish to love Satan.
So, what you are actually saying is that whoever believes that God loves all mankind (John 3:16), is a lover of Satan. Is that it?
Who, may I ask, are the sinners whom God hates, excluding you, of course, as you said. Are you sure you believe the Bible and what it says? Are you not perhaps believing John Calvin, the serial killer and murderer. who had those whom he hated, executed?
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God hates Calvinists.
Nope! God loves Calvinists because it is not his will that they should perish (2 Peter 3:9). If you hate Calvinists you should repent of your evil sin and ask God for his forgiveness because you are grossly disobeying Him.
If God is the very essence of love, which of course HE IS, and if He lives in you, you cannot do otherwise but love even your worst enemy. It is impossible not to love others if God lives in you.
reyjaobs, I am no friend of Calvinism. But my best friend is a Calvinist. When I saw your comment of “God hates Calvinist” my heart skipped a beat. That is the very same attitude some Calvinists have towards those of us who are not Calvinist.
If God hated Calvinists then why should He stop at that? Perhaps then He hates people that are disabled like Deborah and myself. Perhaps He hates people that hate Calvinists. Perhaps then He really hates all of us and is going to send us to hell even though we have received Jesus as Savior.
Read the verses I put here for you.
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Luke 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luke6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
1st John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1st John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
There are Calvinists that are truly Born Again just as I know some Catholic people that have been Born Again. Yes, they are in the wrong churches. But…if we hate saved Calvinist, lost Calvinists, then we are guilty of HATE. Read above what the Apostle John says about hate.
reyjaobs wrote:
Why did the Protestant Reformers Love Each Other So much?
1.Luther on Zwingli and His Followers
Zwingli was greedy of honour . . . he had learnt nothing from me . . . Oecolampadius thought himself too learned to listen to me or to learn from me.
(Grisar, IV, 309; in Table Talk, 1540)
Zwinglians . . . are fighting against God and the sacraments as the most inveterate enemies of the Divine Word.
(Janssen, V, 220-221; LL, III, 454-456)
It would be better to announce eternal damnation than salvation after the style of Zwingli or Oecolampadius.
(Daniel-Rops, 85)
The Zwinglians believed that the Eucharist was wholly symbolic (perhaps the majority position of Protestants today). Hence, whoever believes the same would have had the foregoing said about them by Dr. Luther, who firmly held to consubstantiation, i.e., the actual Body and Blood of Christ is present in the communion along with the bread and wine.
2. Luther on Bucer
They think much of themselves, which, indeed, is the cause and wellspring of all heresies . . . Thus Zwingli and Bucer now put forward a new doctrine . . . So dangerous a thing is pride in the clergy.
A gossip . . . a miscreant through and through . . . I trust him not at all, for Paul says [Titus 3:10] ‘A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid.
3.) Calvin on Luther and Lutherans
What to think of Luther I know not . . . with his firmness there is mixed up a good deal of obstinacy . . . Nothing can be safe as long as that rage for contention shall agitate us . . . Luther . . . will never be able to join along with us in . . . the pure truth of God. For he has sinned against it not only from vainglory . . . but also from ignorance and the grossest extravagance. For what absurdities he pawned upon us . . . when he said the bread is the very body! . . . a very foul error. What can I say of the partisans of that cause? Do they not romance more wildly than Marcion respecting the body of Christ? . . . Wherefore if you have an influence or authority over Martin, use it . . . that he himself submit to the truth which he is now manifestly attacking . . . Contrive that Luther . . . cease to bear himself so imperiously. I am carefully on the watch that Lutheranism gain no ground, nor be introduced into France. The best means . . . for checking the evil would be that the confession written by me . . . should be published.
4. Melanchthon on Zwingli
The timid Melanchthon launched at least one salvo against Zwingli:
Zwingli says almost nothing about Christian sanctity. He simply follows the Pelagians, the Papists and the philosophers.
5. Luther on Protestant “Heretics”
Heresiarchs . . . remain obdurate in their own conceit. They allow none to find fault with them and brook no opposition. This is the sin against the Holy Ghost for which there is no forgiveness.
(Grisar, VI, 282; WA, vol. 19, 609 ff.)
Those are heretics and apostates who follow their own ideas rather than the common tradition of Christendom, who . . . out of pure wantonness, invent new ways and methods.
(Grisar, VI, 282-283; WA, VII, 394)
Grisar adds:
In his frame of mind it became at last an impossibility for him to realise that his hostility and intolerance towards ‘heretics’ within his fold could redound on himself.
(Grisar, VI, 283)
We must needs decry the fanatics as damned . . . They actually dare to pick holes in our doctrine; ah, the scoundrelly rabble do a great injury to our Evangel.
(Grisar, VI, 289; EA, vol. 61, 8 ff.)
I am on the heels of the Sacramentaries and the Anabaptists; . . . I shall challenge them to fight; and I shall trample them all underfoot.
(Daniel-Rops, 86)
“Sacramentarians” or “Sacramentaries ” were those who denied the Real Presence in the Eucharist (e.g., Zwingli).
Needless to say, Scripture condemns conceit: Romans 12:16: . . . “condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.” (See also Proverbs 3:7, Romans 11:20, 12:3, 1st Corinthians 3:18, 8:2, Ephesians 2:9).
JMO: they were all heretics, blasphemers, & murderers.
reyjaobs wrote:
God hates CALVINISM or ANY doctrine that gives a false gospel! Jesus died for sinners because He loves them, but He HATES evil and wickedness and sin of every variety because He is holy and just.
We should share His burden for the lost no matter what ensnares them. Calvinism is one of Satan’s most cleverest deceptions and yet so many give it a pass and refuse to call it out for what it is. Those who dare to speak out against it, may the Lord give you courage to keep on despite the naysayers.
Amen Redeemed. Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. That is why Jesus came. Who were the lost? ALL of us at one time. He didn’t come to seek and save the elect. The lost get saved and instantly become the elect. Who did God elect? Those that followed the “elected plan” of God for salvation.
Sometimes we get so focused on exposing heresy that we don’t see past the heresy to see the person, the lost person behind the heresy. I love this web site. The Deb-ster is the heresy terminator. She also knows that God hates the heresy but loves the heretic. He offers true salvation even to heretics. Isn’t that what grace and mercy are about? I can think of a lot of heresies, heretics and assorted other sinners that I have known. One even threatened to kill a member of my family and he was also my pastor at the time. She attempted to run him over with her car in a parking lot. I caught her hiding in the church bathroom one night. I confronted her and threw her out. There was an No Trespass order from the Sheriff’s Office for her to not come to the church. She ended up being arrested. I said all that to say, as mentally ill as that woman is, I do not hate her, nor does my family member. I do hate all of the trouble and grief she caused my family, but I do not hate her.
Hate never won anyone to Jesus Christ. Hate in our hearts can rob us of sweet fellowship with the Lord. There is no room for hate in the heart that is occupied by the Holy Spirit.
If Jesus Christ could save us then he can save any one.
YAY Redeemed is BACK! *does the dance of joy*
God hates Calvinists so long as they persist in Calvinism. Of course he loves them and desires they repent and cease being Calvinists. But so long as they remain Calvinists he hates them, especially those who make it their life mission to destroy Christianity by turning all Christians either into Calvinists or atheists using Romans 9 as a blunt weapon to beat their skulls open with.
rejacobs
Hmmm, that is a very confusing sentence… “God hates Calvinists so long as they persist in Calvinism. Of course he loves them” lol. Rey, God loves the person, but he hates the doctrine of Calvinism. The word Calvinist is synonymous with ‘the person’ so you can’t say God hates Calvinists. It’s the SIN He hates.
Reyjacobs, you do not understand the nature and character of the Lord our God. The love of God transcends the deepest and most profound love that we as mere mortals can express or comprehend.
The love of God drew up His plan of salvation, the cost of which is beyond our ability to understand, but to just simply accept. But the holiness of God cannot tolerate sin whatever form it takes. That does not negate His love for the sinner and His desire that he be reborn and redeemed. God does not hate people who are His precious creation – but He must punish sin. His unfathomable love has provided a path to forgiveness. His Holy Spirit convicts and seeks to save. God is withholding His wrath against sin to allow more to be saved – He is not willing that any be lost.
Reyjacobs, I fear that if you think God hates the Calvinist, that justifies you to do the same. That is no better than the attitude of the Calvinist/Reformed as spelled out in this article. The devilish doctrine needs to be exposed for the sake of even those who have been ensnared by it as well as those whom they may ensnare and draw into it.
Christ shed His blood for sinners, which includes every one of us. We should hate the sin that put our Savior on the cross, but demonstrate the divine love that sent Him willingly and voluntarily there as the perfect and only acceptable sacrifice for our sin.
Reyjacob, do you understand the plan of salvation? At the top of this website there is a full and complete explanation of it – “Charge that to My Account” and I encourage you to peruse it and pray over it. May the Lord bless you and lead you into all truth.
You equate God with hate. I am truly sad for you. Do you not understand the simplest and greatest verse of Gods love in the Bible, John 3:16 For God so LOVED THE WORLD…that means all of the world and it includes Muslims, Catholics, Mormons, Methodists, Baptists, Hindus, sinners of any religion, denomination, atheist, agnostics, Satanists, but He hates Calvinists. That is a sick and twisted portrayal of Jehovah God. It is just as twisted as Calvinism.
You have let YOUR hatred, not for CALVINISM, but Calvinist cloud your mind, heart, and discernment if you have the gift of discernment. We all in Gods family would do well to ourselves to do a study on the Love of God as best we can understand it.
rejacobs, is there anything that God hates? Yes, He hates SIN. Sin separated God from His creation, man. God created us for fellowship with Him. He created us to know him, to make Him known and thereby Glorify Him. The one true God who IS love doesn’t hate Calvinists. But for some reason you will not let yourself understand the very part of God that God says He is…God is Love. Get yourself a good King James Bible and read John 3:16 over and over. Ask the Holy Spirit to teach you what that verse really means. Then read it over and over again.
I pray you find peace instead of hatred for Calvinist.
reyjacobs wrote:
I wonder if reyjacobs’ comment was just a blip in either logic or in language. Rey’s second and third sentences contradict each other, as Redeemed, Sharon and Debs have virtually pointed out. I would reckon then that Rey meant that God hates Calvinism though not Calvinists but expressed it badly.
As the third sentence seems to be a retraction of the second, that’s surely what Rey must have meant. Otherwise it would not make any sense.
If Jesus Christ want’s us to love our enemies–and He does [Matt 5:44]–surely He loves His enemies too. He died for them after all.
Martin, sure hope you are right! I wish Rey J. would come back and clear that up.
reyjacobs wrote:
What you are saying in reality is that God hates sinners as long as they remain lost sinners. (John 3:16).
I do not think the question should be Calvinism or not, but rather Bible or not. After all, God chose Abel. He chose Seth, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Jacob (but not Esau). He chose Jeremiah and Jonah and John the baptist. The point is that we are all hung up on personal salvation opposed to the Kingdom of God that is supposed to be manifest sometime in the near future on earth. Jesus wants a city on a hill as a beacon for the nations; an example to follow. It’s not about the here-after in heaven, but about the here-after on earth. That is why God chose for Himself a NATION – Israel. The world cannot follow the example of a single human being. That’s impossible! God wants nations to follow Him and for that He needs a national example. Yes, we need to be saved or be condemned to hell, but… that benefits me only. We need to understand what God had in mind when He did His choosing. It is all about Him in his Kingship on earth and a lot less about you and me and our salvation.
Sheugnet wrote:
You sound so much like the Emergent fraternity who believe and proclaim the false Gospel that Jesus did not come to the earth to save sinners but to establish his kingdom on earth, here and now. In his book “The Purpose Driven Church” Rick Warren declares over and over that it is not about you. And now, you join the chorus by saying it is a “lot less about you and me and our salvation.” Really? That’s just another ploy of the devil to belittle and malign the cross of Jesus Christ.
If it’s not about you and me and our salvation what on earth was Jesus doing on the cross? May I ask you a few questions? Do you practice contemplative prayer? Do you attend retreats? Do you walk the labyrinth? I sincerely hope not because that’s the way the emergents believe they can bring the Kingdom of God on earth. It is a cross-less and blood-less gospel which is no gospel at all. Indeed, it is a gospel; that cannot save and henceforth they say “it is not about you and me and our salvation.”
Dear Thomas
You may ask questions and my answers are: No, no and no. I am a student of the Word and a seeker of truth. And I absolutely am not belittling the cross of Jesus. All that I am saying is that Jesus bought for Himself a kingdom with His blood and not merely a bunch of individuals who want to follow Him. The whole of Biblical history and all prophecy has do with this truth – that there are 2 kingdoms. The kingdom of light and the kingdom of darkness and we belong in either the one or the other. Now here’s the greatest thing that the church for the past 40-odd years have missed… That a nation can serve God nationally! That does not mean that every individual in that nation is saved, but that the nation is run according to the laws in the Bible and that nationally there is a belief and confession that Jesus Christ is the Lord and King of that specific nation. That nation is now under God’s command and God blesses them. They become the proverbial ‘city upon a hill’. Two nations who have been such God fearing nations in the past 100 years have been South Africa (before the sell out), and the USA (before the 60’s).
We all as Christians agree that Jesus is going to set up His kingdom upon earth. The Bible is very clear about that. The one thing which is still a bit vague in our minds is exactly HOW He is going to accomplish that. Since we are people who live in mortal bodies, on a physical earth, we can safely say that according to the scriptures something physical must happen. The Bible speaks of the revealing of the man of sin which must happen first before the end comes. Well, that is happening now; and I believe that the ‘end’ which must come, means the end of the current dispensation which started when the Spirit was poured out for the first time – the dispensation of grace. As I understand, the next dispensation will be one of judgement and then the 1000 year reign of Christ. This reign of Christ will be the physical manifestation of the heavenly kingdom upon earth.
Sheugnet wrote:
Your introductory words show that you either have a very vague idea of what salvation is or a very vague idea of what his KIngdom is, or both.
Where in Scripture does it say Jesus bought for Himself a kingdom with his blood? God says:
Christ’s blood was shed for the remission of sins. Since when did his Kingdom sin?
Yes, Jesus is going to set up his Kingdom on earth. He and He alone can and will do it when He returns. The abominable Kingdom- Now false teachers believe they can and ought to do it before Jesus can return. The are not working for the Kingdom of Christ; they are preparing the way for the abominable kingdom of antichrist.
Of course, Thomas. You are 100% correct.
I’m sorry, Thomas. I never did answer your questions.
You ask: Since when did his kingdom sin?
My answer: In Adam when Adam rebelled against God’s authority did the kingdom sin.
You ask: Where in the scriptures does it say Jesus bought for Himself a kingdom with His blood?
My answer: A kingdom cannot consist out of a few people. To have a kingdom, a king needs a country, a subject people, a law and a seal. We know that God has a country for the earth is the Lords and the fullness thereof; we know that God has a law as per the 10 commandments; we know that God has a seal which is the Holy Spirit and the Sabbath. The only thing which needed to be bought back since the fall of man is man himself.
I totally agree with you that the Kingdom Now teachings are absolutely false. I do however understand that the Kingdom of God will come through a people (Israel), subjecting themselves to God and then, being God’s tool, bring judgment upon those who are the seed of Satan, as it says in Obadiah 1:17-21.
Thank you for the opportunity to explain my view and understanding of the scriptures.
Sheugnet
>> we know that God has a seal which is the Holy Spirit and the Sabbath.
Ahhhhh, the Sabbath? Trying to combine grace and the law I see. Are you a Seventh-day Adventist or a Hebrew Roots follower?
[Edited: I was actually writing this article when you posted your comment –> Please read: The Sabbath and the Tribulation]
So when Jesus said: “The kingdom of heaven is at hand” He meant that the sinful kingdom in Adam has come among them.
You are way off base. His kingdom did not sin; Adam and Eve sinned.
Sheugnet.
You know as well as I that the Kingdom of God is not present on earth yet. Had it already been here we wouldn’t have to pray “Let thy Kingdom come.” And so too we wouldn’t need to pray “let thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven” when everyone was already doing his will 100%. How can something that is not on earth yet, sin? And how can God’s Kingdom which is already in heaven, sin?
I’m sorry Sheugnet, but you are talking nonsense and I’m really not in the mood to listen to a few childish remqarks.
To Deborah. No, I am not an Adventist nor do I follow Hebrew Roots. I am an Afrikaans Boervrou and that’s all. By the gracious in-working of the Holy Spirit I desire to keep God’s law. It is therefor no longer a ‘work’, but a consequence.
sheugnet
You desire to keep God’s law? Do you keep the rest of the laws as the bible commands? Did you read Galations?
I remember when I was in the Worldwide Church of God, Debs. They had the idea that you could keep the law–in the Spirit!! The hierarchy maintained that though the law could not be kept in all its demands the main parts could be. I’m not kidding.
They claimed that the 10 commandments, the Passover, Day of Atonement, and the Feast of Tabernacles (Succoth) could be kept in the spirit and therefore the law was still incumbent upon us. I think the SDAs have a similar slant on it, at least regarding the Sabbath.
They also had a good retort–but not an answer–for Galatians. It belonged to their list of “Difficult Scriptures”! They just couldn’t admit they were wrong. It’s a bit like trying to prove to someone that 1+1=2 when they are convinced 1+1=3.
Malachi 1:1,3 – The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
God says it all right here and we should never strive to be like Esau who hated God and his gifts.
Chaplain Bob Walker wrote:
Come on Chaplain, you should know better than that (John 3:10). You ought to know by now that the Holy Spirit often uses forceful language to emphasize a truth he wants to bring across. For instance, in Luke 14:26 Jesus said: “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” How can this be when Paul admonishes husbands to love their wives in the very same way Christ loves his church? (Ephesians 5:25). Do you really think Jesus would contradict himself when He personally gave the Gospel to Paul? It simply means that your love for God must be so overwhelmingly intense that your love for your wife should seem like something equal to hatred. Do you hate your wife, Chaplain? If you do, please don’t tell her without explaining to her the meaning of Luke 14:26.
In any case, Malachi does not refer to the individuals, Jacob and Esau, but to the two nations they represent (Genesis 5:23). If God hated the nation that came from Esau then the entire nation would be reprobate (non-elect) and bound for hell. Similarly, if God loved Jacob then the entire nation of Israel would have been elected unto salvation and irretrievably bound for heaven. That’s ridiculous. Jesus Himself said that the great majority of the Jews are bound for hell and only a remnant will be saved (Matthew 8:12).
Calvinists who quote Malachi 1:1,3 and Romans 9:13 are really getting a bit boring. The sad thing is that Calvinists do not want to listen to reason. They are bent on teaching that God hates sinners. That’s pure blasphemy. Stop your nonsense and repent.
Thomas Lessing (Watch and Pray / Waak en Bid) wrote:
Chaplain Bob Walker wrote:
I never said God hates ALL SINNERS or he would hate me.
Difference between you and I is I believe the Bible and what it says.
But I shall let you argue with the Lord and maybe you can decide if you wish to love Satan.
Chaplain Bob Walker wrote:
So, what you are actually saying is that whoever believes that God loves all mankind (John 3:16), is a lover of Satan. Is that it?
Who, may I ask, are the sinners whom God hates, excluding you, of course, as you said. Are you sure you believe the Bible and what it says? Are you not perhaps believing John Calvin, the serial killer and murderer. who had those whom he hated, executed?