The DIFFERENCE Between Assurance of Salvation and CALVINISM’S Perseverance of the Saints
The DIFFERENCE Between Assurance of Salvation (Once Saved, Always Saved) and CALVINISM’S Perseverance of the Saints (Once CHOSEN, Always CHOSEN)
There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between Calvinism’s version of ‘once saved, always saved’ and the BIBLICAL version of Assurance of Salvation.
You see, Calvinists believe you are CHOSEN by God before you are born, therefore you are actually ‘ONCE CHOSEN, ALWAYS CHOSEN’. If you are Elect, you can’t become un-elect! The Biblical version is WE HAVE FREE WILL, when you come to accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, you are REGENERATED; the Holy Spirit comes to abide in you and HE SEALS YOU, and your name is written in to the book of Life.
Philippians 4:3 “Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.”
Revelation 3:5 also makes is clear that once a name is written in the book of life, Jesus PROMISES that He will never blot it out.
Revelation 3:5 “The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.”
Who are those who have conquered? Well these are those who have overcome the trials of earthly life and are genuinely saved. In Revelation, Jesus was speaking to all the Churches, and He promises to acknowledge us before His Own Father and the angels, those whose names are written in the book of life. Unfortunately (Revelations 20:15) reveals the fate of those whose names that are NOT written in the book of life and they go to the lake of fire…
Revelation 20:15 “And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”
In Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 21:27, we find the references to the “Lamb’s book of life”, in which are also names of all those who have been washed by the blood of the Lamb, Jesus Christ. The Lamb who has been “slain from the creation of the world” has a book in which are written all those who have been redeemed by His sacrifice. They are the ones who will enter the Holy City, the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:10) and who will live forever in heaven with God. Since the book of life is that which records all who have eternal life through the Lamb, it’s clear that the book of life and the Lamb’s book of life are one and the same.
When the Holy Spirit comes to abide in us, he stays there forever! He does not come and go and come and go each time you fall into some kind of sin.
John 14:16 “And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever. “
The fact that the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer is also seen in (Ephesians 1:13-14) where believers are said to be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit,
Ephesians 1:13-14 “13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”
The envision of being sealed with the Spirit is one of ownership and possession. God has promised eternal life to all who are genuinely born again, and as a guarantee that He will keep His promise, He has sent the Holy Spirit to abide in the believer until the day of redemption. Kind of like making a down payment/deposit on a house or a car, God has provided all believers with a DEPOSIT on their future relationship with Him by sending the Holy Spirit to abide in them. The fact that all believers are sealed with the Spirit is also seen in (2 Corinthians 1:22 and Ephesians 4:30).
2 Corinthians 1:22 “Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.”
Ephesians 4:30 “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”
NOW LOOK AT THIS – DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OLD COVENANT AND NEW COVENANT:
Now, BEFORE Jesus’ death, resurrection, and ascension into heaven, before the NEW COVENANT, the Holy Spirit had a “come and go” relationship with people. The Holy Spirit indwelt King Saul, but then He departed from him:
1 Samuel 16:14 “But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.”
Here (1 Samuel 16:13) we read that the Holy Spirit came upon David. But after his adultery with Bathsheba, David feared that the Holy Spirit would be taken from him.
Psalm 51:11 “Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.”
In (Exodus 31:2-5) we read that the the Holy Spirit filled Bezaleel to enable him to produce the items needed for the tabernacle, but this is not described as a permanent relationship.
The Holy Spirit filled Elizabeth when she heard about Mary’s conception and her baby leaped in her womb.
Luke 1:41 “And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost“
But all of this changed beginning on the day of Pentecost, (Acts 2) the Holy Spirit began permanently indwelling believers. Pentecost was the commissioning of the Christian church and the fulfillment of God’s promise to always be with us and never forsake us.
Now, understand this, while the Holy Spirit will never leave a GENUINE believer, it is possible for our sin to “quench the Holy Spirit” or “grieve the Holy Spirit”
Quenching the Holy Spirit: 1 Thessalonians 5:19 “Quench not the Spirit.”
Grieving the Holy Spirit: Ephesians 4:30 “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”
Sin ALWAYS has consequences in our relationship with Jesus. While our relationship with God is SECURE in Jesus Christ, UNCONFESSED SIN sin in our lives WILL hinder our relationship with God and it will quench the Holy Spirit’s working in our lives. That is why it is so important to ask Jesus for forgiveness of our sins because God is “faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9). So, while the Holy Spirit will never leave us, the reward and joy of His presence in our lives will feel far away, because sin drives a wedge between us and God and we are effectively distancing ourselves from Jesus.
As Christians SEALED by the Holy Spirit you will still sin, but if you are genuinely born again, the Holy Spirit will CHASTISE you every time you sin and you will sooner than later repent of your sins. But there are people who PROFESS to be Christian and they do not have the Holy Spirit in then. These are people who can speak Jesus’ name, they go to church, even have big ministries teaching people the bible and they sound so intelligent, but they have not been REGENERATED, because they refuse to give up their sinful ways, they refuse to pick up their cross and follow Jesus.
Luke 14:27 “Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.”
They think they can have it both ways.
2 Timothy 3:5 “They will maintain the outward appearance of religion but will have repudiated its power. So avoid people like these.“
They have bad fruit, they follow doctrines of demons, and they mingle with evil people and very easily compromise the Word of God for the sake of ‘unity’.
Satan always does twist scripture for his own advantage and tell people that at an alter call if they just pray the sinners pray they will be saved and never lose it, but God knows who is GENUINELY saved and who isn’t. We CAN’T fool Him. People CAN FOOL EACH OTHER into believing they are real Christians, when in fact they are not. And how do we tell if they are not, well by the things they do and say (the fruit of the spirit) – the words the speak/preach. But even then, sometimes we meet some ‘great pretenders’ some brilliant con-artists and it takes a long time to figure them out.
See this article as well: Eternal Security – Genuinely Saved, Always Saved!
Hi,
I read through most of this post and see a whole lot of people worried about the CREATURE. And salvation is complete through our CREATOR. Carolyns friend is saved to the end if he ever believed on the Lord Jesus Christ for his salvation PERIOD. I dont care if He turned into Jack the ripper! Carolyns friend never had the power to save himself right?
Carolyns friend does not have the power to unsave himself either! Because salvation is never based on the creature, it is based entirely on the CREATOR. Justification is faith alone in Christ alone, sanctification is positive volition to the Spirit after Justification. Once Justified always justified!
Based on the character and nature of our CREATOR. My guess is that Carolyns friend IS saved. And He chose to follow his flesh instead of the CREATOR.
I base this on the kind of pastors we have today in most all of our churchs. They will focus on the CREATURES CONDITION and POUND that home. And hardly ever teach the CREATURE about his POSITION he now has in Christ. If we hear about our CONDITION all of our lives ,satan wins and the creature will focus on his condition and find its a losing battle if the creature never learns of his new POSITION in Christ. Our POSITION in Christ is the only means to clean up our CONDITION. and hardly a pastor out there teachs the POSITION we have in Christ! Its no wonder we are seeing true believers living in their CONDITION all their lives!
Carolyn,
You said,”For myself, I am grateful for God’s grace and assurance of Salvation. I am grateful for the Holy Spirit’s seal, his promise of eternal life, his Presence, his life as I continue in the vine. But I cannot take Him for granted. Like any relationship, it doesn’t follow that my own choice is now dead. I could at some point, decide that the narrow way of Christ is no longer for me. If I refuse to abide in the vine, I will disconnect myself from the source of nutrients, I will wither and die. And I will be cast out. That’s Scriptural. If the Holy Spirit convicts me, and I choose to listen and repent, I will be saved. That’s also Scriptural.”
Look close at what you said.
You start with Grace and later deny it in this short paragraph. Grace is not Grace if it is not wholly Free, if the CREATURE can at some point lose Grace then your definition of grace is not biblical Grace. John 5:24
You say you have assurance of salvation then in the next few sentences you deny it. Your definition of assurance is not the biblical definition of assurance.
John 5:24 is our Dogmatic scripture stated by Christ himself, we examine this scripture and if we find a verse that seems to contradict John 5:24 then we are reading that verse wrong!
JOH 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My Word, and believes Him Who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”
The first two words in this sentence are very important to understand. When the Lord says, “Truly, truly” in the Greek, this is known as a sentential participle, which emphasizes an important point of doctrine. These two words actually mean, for certain, without a doubt, or indeed. Whenever the Lord Jesus Christ says, “Amen, amen” or “Truly, truly”, it introduces a point of doctrine, a very vital truth of tremendous importance. The Lord Jesus Christ knew exactly what doctrinal principles Satan would attack, and “Truly, truly” is a warning that what was about to be said would inevitably be under attack by the kingdom of darkness. The phrase, “Truly, truly” or “Amen, amen” is used 25 times in the Bible, all found in the Gospel of Joh. Each time the phrase is used, it introduces a truth that is of the greatest importance, i.e., something we need to pay particular attention to.
JOH 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My Word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”
In the original Greek, the word erchomai, translated come in the present tense, means that the scenario is habitually true or keeps on being true. The middle voice indicates that someone else has done the work, and the one who believes benefits from it. The indicative mood indicates that the statement is dogmatic and absolutely true! In fact, with “Truly, truly” or “Amen, amen” at the beginning of this statement, it becomes blasphemous for any believer to even think that someone can lose their salvation! What it does not say is that you may hope to have eternal life, providing that you continue to be faithful, or if you perform some series of works, as some believe.
Notice the last phrase, “but has passed out of death into life.” The word, but, is the subordinating conjunction alla, which can be translated because or on the other hand. What is meant by a subordinating conjunction? A subordinating conjunction determines the reason why the action of the main verb is true and it does so by setting up a contrast. The main verb here is, does not come into judgment, followed by the conjunction alla, but has passed out of death into life.”
The reason that a believer can never be judged or lose his salvation is given with the word metabebeken,meaning to pass over from one place to another, to be totally removed, to totally depart. The perfect tense with an indicative mood is a dogmatic way of referring to eternal security. The moment one believes, he has already passed from death to life, and is not able to pass from life back to death, thereby losing his salvation. The Word of God is crystal clear on this; in JOH 5:24 the Lord Jesus Christ Himself declares that the moment an individual believes, he “has passed out of death into life.”
I am sorry for posting so much, but what hope do we have as Christians if we DO NOT have eternal security as a solid belief in our lives. what can we offer the lost if we are running around telling people that we have to keep ourselves saved!They just as well stay were they are and fight sin on there own! Now we are telling them that they should come around a bunch of judgmental people and we will show them what they can or can not do to keep on being saved(I would like to see that list!)! I would rather stay in the world.
Jesus came to save sinners, He died for sinners. I am a sinner and He died for me! If ANYONE believes that, ANYONE, that sinner is saved FOREVER no matter what that sinner behaves like after that belief. Now that is GOOD NEWS.
the indwelling of the Spirit(eternal security) is very different from fellowship with the spirit. He always, always,and always indwells the believer.But we can quench and grieve or be in fellowship with that constant indwelling Spirit.
And if your first thought is,” So you are teaching people that they can just go out and live like hell?”
I would question you if you truly know Grace. Because someone who has tasted Grace from Christ would know that that is not the first inclination of a truly born again Christian.
Thought someone might have something to say about comment #68.
That’s some good preachin’ Sister Sue. You are right…there is NO cost to the gift of Salvation. And for that we are eternally grateful. The cost is in discipleship. Sometimes we try and smudge the lines between the two. But they are totally separate.
There is still the issue of so called Christians sinning. Whether they were real Christians or not, the fact remains:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Personally, I still see many places in the Scriptures where people that fall away had some kind of seed of faith planted in them. Was their faith genuine?…probably not, because they failed the test…in time of trouble.
Hebrews 12:16
See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.
Matthew 13:20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.
Debs…it’s Christmas. We’ll cut you some slack. (grinning)…We are all learning as we go. I may say something amazing today and tomorrow I could say something that would dumbfound the whole Christian community by its absurdity. And I no doubt have done that very thing…so you are among humans who don’t say everything right. You’re forgiven…alas….more than forgiven….loved!
I found this little blurb on this site in keeping with what I was trying to say above about discipleship:
http://stempublishing.com/magazines/cf/1897/Faith-and-Discipleship.html
Quote“Faith and discipleship are intimately connected, and yet are quite distinct the one from the other. Indeed, faith must necessarily precede discipleship if the latter is to be genuine. That there may be a great profession of discipleship without faith is clearly shown in the Word, and borne witness to by the history of ages. But it is worse than valueless; it is a deception and a snare – “without faith it is impossible to please Him.”
If you put the works first, then faith in Christ is not the energy/power fuelling the works. But if you put the faith first, then the genuine faith will be the energy/power supporting the works/discipleship. I can see the worldling getting all fired up with emotion in following a false Jesus, be it the Catholic Jesus, the Charismatic Jesus or the Calvinistic Jesus, for example. …and Satan has a free hand with immorality, idolatry and the like in their lives because there is no genuine faith in the power of God. Their faith is in the works that they do, the men they trust and the religious spirits/deceptions they follow.
2 Timothy 3:4-6
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Quote: “Only then can the path of discipleship be really accepted and maintained, and indeed its maintenance can only be, in the energy of faith, sustained by communion with God as to all that He sets before His people – by His Word speaking to the heart, and revealing the end of the path, even coming glory.”
And Debs,
you said,”These are people who can speak Jesus’ name, they go to church, even have big ministries teaching people the bible and they sound so intelligent, but they have not been REGENERATED, because they refuse to give up their sinful ways, they refuse to pick up their cross and follow Jesus.”
I simply disagree. these people are not saved IF they have refused to BELIEVE in Jesus Christ alone for their salvation. This statement is Lordship salvation.Not one person has EVER turned from all sin. we have sin that we are not even aware of! only the Lord knows. And if we were to turn from all of our sin, where is that list for each and every individual? And if we dont have to turn from all sin, what sin is ok not to turn from?
Repent means to turn from your Unbelief.
There is NO unpardonable sin for the believer.
and there is only ONE unpardonable sin for the unbeliever. john 16:9 concerning SIN because they do not BELIEVE in Me.
Here’s my final install on the discipleship comment. I believe I can make the bold statement that:
If we begin with the correct Biblical gospel, then our discipleship will be correct. If we begin with discipleship…be it IHOP, NOLR, Dominionism, Perseverance of the saints, a “Mother Teresa kind of good works” or an ecumenical Rick Warren kind of good works…even if we reach the whole world…we have the wrong gospel. If we begin with the gospel according to Jesus and the Apostles, and we remain in it, then we will have the right discipleship.
2 John 1:9
Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Redeemed,
I know you probably know this but i want to be crystal clear here.
You said,”I liked the way he described that there is a cost be BEING a Christian and the distinction between that and receiving the FREE gift of salvation.
The only cost to being a Christian is the huge cost the Lord paid for sinners.
There is not a cost for us Christians to be Christians. The Lord paid that price.
Being a Christian costs us NOTHING, it cost Jesus His life and cost the Father His son.
It does not even cost us anything to live the Christian life! It just feels like it because living the Christian life is totally against our Flesh and the world.
Dear Carolyn
Did you read my comments on 62 and SPECIFICALLY look at the links I left?
It seems like you haven’t because you did not reply to me. I would be interested to hear your thoughts AFTER you have read it all.
This is what I wrote:
“Carolyn, I wrote an article covering this entitled:
“Why True Believers Are Eternally Secure In Their Salvation” on:
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Please read the article AND the comments. Together they give a direct response to your concerns. Please always remember to put ALL isolated scripture verses into the context of the WHOLE picture of salvation (and God’s eternal plan of salvation) as shown by the WHOLE bible put together. If we do that, then isolated verses can be explained better. The above article seeks to do that.
Please also note that subsequent to August 2010 I have learnt that I was wrong in my understanding of repentance. So the comment I made “Point I am making is that the moment we repented, turned from our selfish/sinful ways and gave our lives to Jesus, we were asking Jesus to take control of our wills.” needs to be slightly changed to:
“Point I am making is that the moment we repented, (changed our minds) being convicted about our sinful condition and gave our lives to Jesus, we were asking Jesus to take control of our wills.”
In response to the cost of being saved, my full reply can be found on my article:
“What Is Repentance?” found on:
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Carolyn, please read these because it surely will prove that OSAS IS correct.
God bless
Jarrod Kruger
Yes you are right, I am wrong, I have made a few mistakes under this thread. I ask forgiveness 🙁 *sighs*
My, didn’t I make myself clear? Salvation is a FREE gift. But if we are to live for the Lord it will COST us something – a sacrifice of our comforts, resources, etc. There are those who subscribe to “cheap grace”.
Jerrod, the Bible says we are saved for good works. Read James. We don’t serve out of obligation, but rather out of GRATITUDE for whet He has done for us. Legalism is just the opposite.
If I sound a bit frustrated it is because I have got this ugly bug that is making the rounds. So don’t have chapter and verse on this, so if someone could help me out? We are not saved BY good works, but we ARE saved FOR good works.
There are people who take their salvation for granted and think it gives them a license to sin. Comprehendo?
Debs, this is a good thread. It exposes the false teaching of the “P” in TULIP and explains the true doctrine of security of the believer.
If it got a bit off track that’s not your fault. This topic will naturally bring a lot of questions to the table. This is needed teaching. Some sincere Christians sin and think they have lost their salvation and crash and burn. Then there are others who go merrily on their way, not exercising discernment and fall into the ditch.
We don’t keep our salvation by works, but we are called to good works.
Keep up the good work!
Confusions tend to set in because of the following reasons:
1) time gaps between comments being published (last time comments were published were 2 full days ago and prior to that one whole day) because Debs has not been well.
2) further irrelevant comments have been made because writers have not seen the replies yet and written as if there had been no replies
3) like a highway motor crash there is a pile up of unpublished comments which can create a confusion crash after a sudden burst of comments published in one go
4) the pile up of mass comments published in one go can mean that many comments NEVER get read and therefore adds to the confusion.
I say these things because it is blatantly clear from the replies that not every comment directed to specific individuals has actually been read by those individuals – probably because of the “sudden” pile up, they have been missed.
@ Keep it Simple:
re 68 and 95
I made the same point within my article entitled “God HAS Given Us Freewill. It IS Revealed In The Bible”
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This is an excerpt from that article:
“These preachers state that after Adam and Eve sinned they no longer had freewill. But, what about Cain who came along afterwards?
Read Genesis 4:6-7 ”So the Lord said to Cain, ‘Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.’ “
Sounds like Cain had freewill???”
>> Sounds like Cain had freewill???”
Definitely.
Jarrod you have it spot-on…Jesus’s work on the cross is more complete than the dictionary can describe as complete…it goes beyond human understanding and intellect…no theology is wise enough to disprove it.
We might abuse our grace because we are weak…sickness, mental or physical or even alcoholism but this is only because of our weaknesses’ or infirmities…it is simply a condition that is a result of sin…not an excuse…if you are TRULY BORN again and caught up in sin then you suffer hell on earth and will never BE COMFORTABLE until you repent and sincerely ask Him for His Strength to overcome.
When you surrender your life to Christ He sends His Holy Spirit to teach, comfort and guide you. You will always know you are a sinner and never be complete and happy until you start asking Him deep in your heart to help you overcome.
Hey everyone,
I have really enjoyed reading all the posts, and it has been good to see TRUE Christians debating and talking with each other, in a spirit of love and patience.
This is a great thread Debs, and I know I have learned from what has been posted.
I understood what Redeemed was saying as I know what she believes, as does John and Debs, but it just goes to show how easily one can become confused. We have to constantly be alert and discerning. It also shows how very important it is to be consistent in reading the scripture, and NEVER to take the words of man over those of God.
Jarrod, I do not think I have seen you here before, but I was very pleased to see your comments and thoughts. You obviously know the scriptures well.
I pray that we will all learn and grow together in this new year.
God bless.
Thank you John. I read your article, great. Thank you also Deborah. I just needed conformation. Freewill is so clearly revealed here that only the intellectually arrogant would refuse to accept it.
Michael, you summed it up well. Our Lord offers a GIFT of such proportions that it cannot be measured or fully explained. He paid the FULL price for our redemption – no greater love has ever been demonstrated and to spurn such a gift is to reject the God of the universe.
When He hung on that cross He knew exactly what each one of us would do in our lives from A to Z. He forgave our sins, past, present and future.
He knows our frailties. But if one lives for Christ one will suffer. And if one does NOT obey the Lord one will suffer the consequences of discipline of a loving Father.
Grace and peace to all who have posted here.
Redeemed,
I hear ya! I am in complete agreement. Its just that we have some people on this thread that have it blurred. Those works are miles away from their eternal salvation(Justification) so I was saying that for their walk.
I just know that this subject is todays most hotly contested subject in Christiandom.
And there are people reading this that are on the fence so to speak. And Salvation is first and formost for the unbeliever. And eternal Security is under such attack by the kingdom of darkness,and eternal security is a great part of our joy!
I personally will draw very clear lines between works and salvation for the new believer.
We are commissioned to Spread the Good news of the Gospel(divine works) and that is salvation for the lost. And we all need a very solid Grasp on true salvation to present it to the lost.
We have so many preachers,books,tv shows,you tube and internet articles teaching that those works are a part of their salvation.That we need to be very clear to people that those have NOTHING to do with their eternal salvation.
I personally do not worry about “cheap grace” much, If that person wants to believe that,so be it, as long as they believe in Christ alone. Now they have the Holy Spirit to teach them that it was NOT CHEAP.
And I think that the term “cheap Grace” came to us by the kingdom of darkness to throw us off track. Because it is “easy” for us to obtain the Free Grace of Christ. And that term was coined to try to change our message of the Simplicity of the Gospel.
Debs,
I know how frustrating it can be to do what your doing! I thank you for the opportunity to do some mission work on your sight!
It is nice to see some like minded people out here in this twisted world.
Thank you for what you are doing and letting me drop in!
In Christ eternally
Jarrod Kruger
Just a thought to all,
Do not be afraid of the terms “easy believism” or “cheap Grace”.
these phrases were set up for a reason. They came around from the kingdom of darkness to make us stop preaching the simplicity of the Gospel!
“easy believism” is what I am! and who ever coined the phrase puts a negative connotation on the phrase, and drags me into the debate of what THEY believe “easy believism” is. And thus distracts me from what The Lord really wants me doing.
Just keep teaching Faith alone in Christ alone, and dont get sucked into A debate that is set up on the other persons false premise.
Jarrod
>> I know how frustrating it can be to do what your doing! I thank you for the opportunity to do some mission work on your sight!
Yeah it’s very frustrating and sometimes, I myself, get a bit confused, that I need a helping hand of correction. I don’t realise what I am actually saying until someone points it out. Thank you for pointing it out.
I’ve not been well that last 2 days and my ‘thinking cap’ has not been screwed on tightly enough 😉 I hope by tomorrow that I am back up and running again.
Eternal life a gift from God to those who believe,Romans 6:23. Romans 11:29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
How can you keep by works that which you cannot get by works.
John, I read your articles this morning. Here’s something I picked up from the first one:
Quote: “True believers who fall into sin will be chastened by their Father (Heb 12:6-11) and disciplined by their local church (1 Cor 5:4-5); but any professing Christians who live in sin and go unpunished, only prove they were never saved in the first place (Heb 12:8) — for ‘whoever is born of God does not practise sin’’ (1 John 3:9). Thus, the Bible does not teach that those who profess Christianity but then return to their sinful ways are still ‘guaranteed heaven’. The Bible repeatedly emphasises the fact that “the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Judas exemplifies this truth. That he never lost his salvation is clear from the Lord’s words to the 12 disciples; ‘Ye are clean, but not all ’’ (John 13:10). Judas had never been to Christ for cleansing and forgiveness. His actions proved he was an apostate, not a backslider.”
This paragraph makes perfect sense. I agree. I’m beginning to see a few adjustments needed in my own thinking.
Personally, I have assurance of salvation. I know that with God’s saving and keeping power, I will never be moved from the hope and promise of eternal life. And I know that works are not involved in the gift of eternal life.
I got all tangled up in 7th Dad Adventism somewhere along the way for 8 months and getting free of that was when I really understood that it was God’s work to keep me safe, not my own works.
Galatians 3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
I’m going pray over the rest of what you said and I will probably have some further comments.
Thanks for you comments Jarrod…Re your comment to me #92. Your point is made well. I have the certainty of my own salvation. And I could never imagine walking away from God at this point in my life…however, my faith has been tested and tried and purified and refined. When the seed (the Word) was dropped into my heart…I mixed it with faith. Somehow it germinated and sprouted and became a plant. In some people…the seed never matures past the seedling stage because of unbelief /sin that chokes it out. So what I was struggling with was the fact that I THOUGHT that these people were actually saved. But what John says in the paragraph above, if he’s right, returning to their sin, PROVES that they were never saved in the first place. Still thinking Jarrod…have patience….
@ Deborah (Discerning the World):
I sure hope you get to feeling better!
Hold the fort!. Jarrod…I disagree with you!
You said in #91 – missed it…just saw it this moment.
Quote: “I read through most of this post and see a whole lot of people worried about the CREATURE. And salvation is complete through our CREATOR. Carolyns friend is saved to the end if he ever believed on the Lord Jesus Christ for his salvation PERIOD. I dont care if He turned into Jack the ripper! Carolyns friend never had the power to save himself right?”
Wrong…please re-read :
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[ 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Period. And that is not the only place in Scripture that it says that in no uncertain terms.
I agree…
With Salvation comes REPENTANCE of Sin… non-negotiable – we will always be sinners but we as Christians will always be convicted by the Holy Spirit and we will REPENT of our sin when we sin.