The General Conversation Section – If You Don’t Know Where to Say it, Say it Here!

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This is the General Conversation Section.

If You Don’t Know Where to Say it, Say it Here!

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It can be a Q & A section or a ‘Have you heard’ section…

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Deborah (Discerning the World)

Deborah Ellish is the author of the above article. Discerning the World is an internet Christian Ministry based in Johannesburg South Africa. Tom Lessing and Deborah Ellish both own Discerning the World. For more information see the About this Website page below the comments section.

725 Responses

  1. blank Scott says:

    Hi do you have the LINK that is in your article about “Chuck Smith dies at 86 ” about his video ;
    Chuck Smith teaches that (in his own words, see video) that “the REAL ME is spirit“…classic Gnosticism. The video doesnt work on your website and i couldn’t find it on YouTube. Im trying to share it with someone- fyi. Maybe it was taken down? Thank you

  2. blank Scott says:

    Hi what is arminianism and is it biblical other than conditional security? Thank you

  3. blank Scott says:

    Hi sorry for all the questions but can i ask one more please? Can you tell me how Jacob Prasch was tied to Katheryn koolman? Is it through Chuck Smith. Im asking because im debating someone about jacob prasch associations and im in over my head. Im not that mature in the Word. So any info would be great? Also ive learned alot from your articles so thank you! God is good!!

  4. Hi Scott :hi:

    1) If the video doesn’t work its possible it was taken down or removed by owner. Yip I see it’s gone. Unfortunately.

    2) Arminianism turned into what we know today as Methodism. Nope it’s not very biblical, John Wesley was the founder of Methodism and he was an Arminianist. Jacob Prasch is an Arminianist/Methodist he follows John Wesley.

    3) Jacob Prasch is not tied to Kathryn Kuhlman or Lonnie Frisbee. Jacob Prasch was best friends with Chuck Smith (who is now deceased). Chuck Smith is tied to Kathryn Kuhlman and Lonnie Frisbee etc. Lonnie Frisbee was the founder of the Calvary Chapel movement, Chuck Smith took it over. https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/11/19/jacob-prasch-twisting-scripture-the-midrash-way/

  5. blank Rusty Allen says:

    Hi Deborah,

    I am an older man who is confused about a lot of what I see going on in my little corner of the world. I am married to a woman who is dissociative. She has not been diagnosed with D.I.D., but is disossiative. The therapist she uses says that’s a distinction. According to the therapist/counselor, we all are dissociative, but my wife is highly dissociative, but not so extreme that she is D.I.D. Does that make sense? I have no idea, obviously, if you are familiar with D.I.D., which is what Multiple Personality Disorder is being called now. I don’t even know if it’s a real thing, but I do know that my wife suffers incredibly with something akin to mental illness. My wife was sexually abused, multiple times from early childhood until her later teens, by an older adult family member. I didn’t become aware of this until she crashed mentally, and it was 10 years after we were married. She seemed to be a strong, independent, competent woman who had normal everyday struggles like we all do. After we became empty nesters, this mental breakdown occured and she hasn’t been reliably normal since. Most of the time, she presents as someone very average and normal. However, she isn’t well, and the reality now seems to be an every day fight with functioning, holding on to a job, and relationships are extremely tested and fragile. I am told that the vast majority of highly dissociative people get divorced by their spouse, because it is so difficult to live with. The number of dissociative people in the United States is estimated at 3.25 million, so that’s 1% of the population. I don’t really care about that number, I’m affected by one. It’s a tragic place to be. I will not divorce, although it has crossed my mind, but God has given me the strength to endure. I can not describe the difficulty adequately. There are horror stories I could tell and lots of them. We have been married for 20 years now, and the typical cycle is normalcy, then tragedy, normalcy, then tragedy. It’s a violent roller-coaster. I can’t find anything in God’s word that seems to apply to disorders of this kind, and many times, it is equated to demonic possession. She is a born again Christian as am I. She spends a huge amount of time reading scripture, and praying, and praising God, and journaling, but then the dissociation erupts and we spend time in the emergency room, and the psych ward. There are also many Christian elders who tell me about the dangers of Christian counselors, therapists, and psychiatrists, and medications. I believe God can heal her. When she dies, I believe God will undeniably heal her, but I’d really like to see her healing in this life. I know she will be healed in the eternal life, but can she be healed by Jesus in this life? Jesus healed many and sometimes all in His earthly ministry. Am I lacking the faith or is she lacking the faith to be healed? 10 years of counseling, therapy, medications, praying, searching, and discussions have resulted in nothing being changed at this point. There are no supporting members of my family left. There are no supporting members of her family left. We have been abandoned by man, but I know God has not abandoned us, for His Word says Heb 13:5 “Let your manner of living be without covetousness, and be content with such things as ye have, for He hath said, “I will never leave thee nor forsake thee”. Do you have anything to suggest? Thank you very much for reading and opening your heart.

  6. Hi Rusty

    I am saddened to hear about your wife but I am even more grieved to hear that you and your wife have been doing journaling. We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against the devil and his angels (Ephesians 6:12). However, when we participate in his occult practices, we become entangled in his web of deceit and destruction (1 Peter 5:8).

    The very first thing you need to do is to confess to the Lord your sin of occult journaling and immediately burn all the things you had written down in your journaling, and then we shall take it from there as soon as you have done so.

    Please read this article for more information on journaling.

    http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/journal.htm

  7. blank Rusty Allen says:

    Tom, I didn’t read a whole lot on your website before I posted my message, but I see now that I have written to the wrong group. I guess I should’ve commited the next 2 years to reading everything that you have written on this website before posting. The pre-conceived notions and knee-jerk reaction that I received from you is unwarranted and so loaded with assumptions on your part, that there is no need to further this immaturity. One thing that I will make mention of is that I said my wife is journalling, not me, and furthermore, you don’t know of that word “journalling” to be all-inclusive under occult. There is writing on a computerized document, which can’t be “burned”, because it’s electronic, and taking notes while reading the Bible is assumed to be occultic journaling now, I guess. Excuse me for the words journal instead of note-taking. That will probably un-do the resurrection now, I yes? You’re unmerited attack to an innocent question speaks volumes.

  8. The fact is, Rusty, you and your wife are one flesh and everything she or you do on your own, influences both of you. That’s how God sees it and I can prove it to you from Scripture. Moreover, psychology itself is based on the occult. This, I assume, both of you agreed to do jointly. You asked me for my opinion and any suggestions. I gave it to you in good faith. However, if that’s your attitude, there is nothing more I can do for you.

  9. blank Riana Louw says:

    Hi Tom, does this include keeping a diary? I guess the new word for diary is a journal, since the books are not called a diary anymore in the shops.

  10. Tom (Discerning the World) wrote:

    Riana Louw

    Yes, and the new word for sin is making a mistake. Journaling is an occult practice and therefore highly demonic; keeping a diary is not. You should know that.

    As a prolific author, television personality, radio broadcaster (The Chapel of the Air), and popular speaker at Christian women’s conferences, Karen Mains has few peers when it comes to influence upon evangelical women. Presently she is chairman of the trustee board for InterVarsity Christian Fellowship/USA and on the Board of Reference of Renovaré (Richard Foster’s Christian mysticism organization). Her latest book Lonely No More is an exercise in journaling, i.e., writing down one’s spiritual experiences, thoughts, emotions, dream interpretations, communications with God (and vice versa). In it, she reveals her innermost “wounds,” aspirations – and has an axe or two to grind.

    The psychospiritual aspects of the book are reflected primarily in its inner-healing foundation, a mixture of Freudian/Jungian concepts and spiritual beliefs, practices and techniques. Karen received training in inner healing at the School of Pastoral Care established by Agnes Sanford, and considers Sanford disciple and inner-healing/spiritual therapist Leanne Payne to be one of her personal “spiritual directors” (see The Seduction of Christianity regarding the occultic aspects of Agnes Sanford and inner healing).

    Inner loneliness and deep soul wounds, resulting from husband David’s workaholism and lack of sensitivity to her needs, from Christian males resenting her leadership qualities, and from past experiences of repressive evangelical restrictions (theological and cultural), are among the “emotional hurts” Mains attempts to deal with throughout her book. The route of psychospiritual self-therapy through which she leads the reader is a deadly swamp of subjectivity infested with Jungian dream analysis, symbolic imagery, shamanic visualization, interactive communication with dream entities, projections from the (Freudian) subconscious, and mystical contemplative prayer and fasting. Her Jungian “spiritual director,” a Roman Catholic nun and director of novice training, becomes her guide on her soul journey. (Source)

    Journaling and visualization are one and the same things:

    Speaking of visualization, Virkler teaches seminars designed to “open one up to two-way communication with Almighty God,” which Reid says “is going to change the nation….” (Sadly enough, not just Virkler’s seminar but the growing use of visualization may indeed “change the nation.”) The secret is in two divination techniques (divination is forbidden by the Bible in any form): “journaling” and “visualization.” What Virkler calls “the breakthrough” into two-way dialogue with God came through information gained at a seminar conducted by Dennis and Matthew Linn, Jesuit priests who teach the visualization of Mary and Joseph for inner healing. Virkler teaches visualization of a “Jesus” who can be conjured up at will in the imagination but then begins to move and speak on his own. Clearly contact has been made with some spirit entity independent of the visualizer’s imagination, but it is not our Lord Jesus Christ, for He cannot be called from the right hand of the Father on high to appear before us as our private guru any time we please. TBC (Source).

  11. blank Ida says:

    Dear DTW,

    Please discern this phrase from the book of Eschatological expert – Prof Hannes- I copy and paste out of the book:

    4. 5 DOEN ALLES IN MÝ NAAM

    Alles wat u bid of vra, moet in geloof in DIE NAAM VAN YAHSHUA, gevra word. Wanneer u hierdie GODDELIKE GEOPENBAARDE NAAM VAN YAHSHUA noem, krimp elke demoniese gees inmekaar van vrees, want hulle weet dat u in DIE NAAM met die GROOTSTE OUTORITEIT bid, en hulle sidder en beef, by die aanhoor van hierdie ANTIEKE GODDELIKE NAAM VAN YAHSHUA, wat die Rooms-Katolieke kerk vir eeue kragteloos gemaak het, deur dít te noem: “Die Here Jesus Christus.” U weet reeds dat in die Hebreërse Alfabet, bestaan daar nié die letter “J” nie. Die letter “J” is eers 400 jaar gelede deur die Rooms-Katolieke kerk, in die GRIEKSE Alfabet aangebring, om dít moontlik te maak dat die naam “Jesus Christus,” in die
    Protestante Bybels invertaal kon word.

    – As YAHSHUA, by u sou verbystap, en u sou roep; JESUS CHRISTUS! Sal Hy net aanhou loop, want HY ken nié daardie naam nie. –

    Maar as u sou roep; YAHVAHSHUA! of YAHSHUA! Sal u Hóm onmiddellik tot stilstand dwing, want DÍT IS SY ANTIEKE NAAM wat die Profete Hom by genoem het! Besef u werklik hoeveel KRAG daar is in hierdie GODDELIKE NAME? Wanneer ons nou hierdie volgende Skrifgedeelte bestudeer, ervaar hoe ons genoemde gesprek bevestig word deur die Woord van Elohim.
    Kolossense 3 vers 17:
    (Vers 17): “En wat julle (naamlik die Bruid van YAHSHUA, selfs in hierdie 21ste eeu of later), ook al doen in woord en in daad, doen alles in die NAAM van die Here Jesus (YAHSHUA), en dank God (Elohim), DIE VADER, deur Hom.” (YAHSHUA). Verstaan u werklik wat u gelees het?

  12. Hi Ida :hi:

    It has come to my attention recently that names beginning with ‘YAH’ might actually be Babylonian names. Prof Hannes is a liar and part of the Hebrew Roots movement (Sacred Name movement), that if you don’t call Jesus Christ by His ‘Sacred name’ He will not respond to you, hence you can’t even get saved. This is a deadly cult that is growing rapidly. The snare is the ‘Name’. Once you start thinking you have to call Jesus Christ by a so called sacred or secret name, all of a sudden Satan grabs your mind and you start to become ensnared in the rest of the doctrine which takes you right back to the Law.

    I am going to do an article on this.

    Isa 7:14 (KJV)
    14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

    H6005 עִמָּנוּאֵל `Immanuw’el (im-maw-noo-ale’) n/p.
    1. (meaning) with us (is) God.
    2. (person) Immanuel, a type name of Isaiah’s son.

    Matt 1:25 (KJV)
    25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

    (Mickelson’s Enhanced Strong’s Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments)
    G2424 Ἰησοῦς Iesous (yee-sous’) n/p.

    (NOTE) (“Jesus” is a valid English transliteration, coming from Ancient Hebrew to Koine Greek (via the Septuagint) to Latin to Old English to Modern English. It is completely acceptable to God (Yahweh) for us call upon the Savior’s name as “Jesus,” or “Iesous,” or “Yeshua,” or even “Yesu” as in Christian Arabic or in the Fijian Islands, et al. God prepared for all nations to be able to trust in the Savior and to call upon his name by preparing a language dialect for international use: the Hebraic-Koine Greek. Thus, technically and formally, the pronunciation “Iesous” was intentionally established by the Savior as the common basis for Jewish and Gentile acknowledgment of his Redemption and Salvation, going forth as needed into every tribe, native tongue, people, and nation. “Yeshua” is of course delightfully acceptable to him, when it is not used as an exclusionary name. Love edifies).

    Col 3:17 (KJV)
    17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

    Jesus
    H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo’-ah) n/l.
    1. he will save.
    2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel.

  13. blank Ida says:

    Dear DTW,

    Thank you once again for an honest and straight forward answer. Professor Hannes was invited to comment and to defend his statement and his book. I have always regarded the Name ‘Jesus Christus” as the Name above all Names. Acts 4 v 12 : Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. When we pray in the name of the one we call “Jesus” the Jewish Messiah the son of the only Living God creator of heaven and earth, there is no mistaken identity. He knows. When he walks by and you even call him ‘Son of David” he will stop. I say this because of Psalm 139 v1 : To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me. 2Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off. 3Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. 4For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowes.

  14. blank Ida says:

    This is the answer I received from Prof Hannes:
    Dankie vir jou INSEGGEWENDE verklaarings van die Naam YAHSHUA!
    Die ONINGELIGTE PERSOON wat my as ʼn leuenaar uitmaak; en verklaar dat ek deel van die Israel Roots Teologie is; lei aanGEHELE BREIN VESAKING (as hy ʼn brein het). Ek staan onder GEEN ander KERKLIKE geloof of dogma nie; maar ons staan by dit wat volgens: “THE RESTORATION OF THE ORIGINAL SACRED NAME BIBLE; THE ROTHERHAM VERSION”geskryf staan.
    Vra vir hierdie EENVOUDIGE DOM persoon; wanneer het hy ooit met my gekominikeer.

    Ek stel voor u (en enige iemand wat hierdie boodskap lees); gaan na my Webtuiste by: [URL REMOVED] en dan kan u; uself vergewis wat daar geskryf staan. In hierdie Tuisblad verduidelik ek mooi; dat onsdie Israelviesie Teologie; die Hebrew Roots Telogie; die Sacred Name Telogie en die Messiaanse Telogie VERWERP MET MINAGTING; want hulle WEET NIKS van hierdie GEOPENBAARDE Antieke Oorspronklike

  15. blank Ida says:

    continue:Hebreërse Name van; YAHVAHSHUA; DIE RUACH ha KODESH; YAHSHUA; of YAHVAH ons Vader NIE! Hoe kan ek deel van hierdie New Age godsdiens Teologie wees?
    Ek sien hierdie ou met die HAWE BREIN; verduidelik dat ons ʼn KULT (Afgods beweging) is.

    Weereens. Hierdie ou hoor die KLOK slaan maar weet NIE waar die BEL hang nie. Ek preek AL MY LEWE teen die 613 wette van Moses; en dan kom hierdie ONINGELIGTE FOOL; en sê dat ek jou na die Wette sal neem. (Wys jou net hoe MIN weet hy regtig. HY RAAI NET!! HY is gewoont om mense te impress.
    Hierdie eenvoudige fool; weet self NIE dat die Hebreërse Alfabet wat hy gebruik in hierdie studie van hom; is inwerklikheid een van die 12 Palo Hebrew alfabette; wat tussen 22 en 27 letters nie nie!. Hierdie FOOL het nog NOOIT in sy hele lewe nog nooit “The Restoration of the Original Sacred Name Bible; the Rotherhan Vesion” gesien nie. (Sê vir hom; hy moet vir jou; bladsy 5 van hierdie genoemde Bybel afneem;

    continue:en vir jou stuur. HY HET DIT NIE!!!
    Stuur hierdie HELE gedeelte vir hom; en sê vir hom; as hy die GUTS Het dat hy met my ook moet praat.
    Waaroor antwoord hy NIE jou eerste boodskap in AFRIKAANS nie?
    Ek vertrou hierdie inligting help.
    Mooi dag.
    Professor Hannes Redelinghuys (M/Phd.).(Eskat.).(Calvary Univ.).(Kanada).

  16. blank Ida says:

    Yoh! defending the faith (as delivered once to the Saints) is no small matter. It seems that you face a roaring lion sometimes.

  17. Ag, really? I have no intention of discussing further with this Hannes Redelinghuys guy.

    He can come here to chat if he wants. But he wont.

    He says he is not part of the Hebrew Roots Movement and Sacred Name movement or any other church dogma yet says he stands firmly on the bible called “THE RESTORATION OF THE ORIGINAL SACRED NAME BIBLE; THE ROTHERHAM VERSION” :dazed:

    He is nothing but a Professor who “professes” to be a Christian. He uses his Prof title to lure people into false teaching. Everyone is dumb and brainless according to his words, listen to him he cries, “I’m a Professor (M/Phd.).(Eskat.).(Calvary Univ.).(Kanada).”

    :laugh: @ “Waaroor antwoord hy NIE jou eerste boodskap in AFRIKAANS nie?” that was funny.

  18. Dear Ida

    You said “It seems that you face a roaring lion sometimes.”

    Yes, he is a roaring lion who has already been defeated by Jesus Christ the Son of God.

    I was waiting for him to mention the RUACH haKODESH, this is the Kaballah – https://www.safed.co.il/kabbalah-and-the-inner-spirit.html

    “The Hebrews of ruach causing the Judaic Shuckling or (torso-rocking prayer)” –> https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/06/23/biblical-holy-spirit-unholy-spirit-fire/

  19. Hi Ida

    Sorry that you had to post his comment in 3 separate comments. I see I limited each comment to 1000 characters. I’ve fixed this problem. :thumbsup:

  20. Hi Debs,

    They are indeed all Professors of faith and nothing more.

    I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name (Psalm 138:2)

  21. blank John says:

    Yeah! The website seems to be up and operating once again here in the USA! Missed you guys. John from Alabama

  22. Hi John, awesome! :hi5:

    :yahoo:

  23. blank Claudia says:

    AMEN to what John wrote! I’m SO HAPPY DTW is back online!!! I missed you guys, too!! :thankyou: :yahoo: :hi:
    Claudia (from NC, USA)

  24. Hi Claudia

    It’s sooooo wonderful to hear from all our readers, truly you make Tom and I really happy. Thank you! :like:

  25. blank D.W. Cusens says:

    Hi Tom
    Question, I am concerned about the doctrine and teaching of Andries Enslin of LewenSentrum Alberton? People love this guy and i hope that he is solid. Can you please advise me about my concerns, last days deceit is very real as the scriptures warn us.
    Regards
    D.W. Cusens

  26. Dear D.W. Cusens

    Oh my but are you reading my mind? lol 🙂 On Sunday I went to the shops and drove past this church (which I do rather regularly) and thought to myself, “I’ve got to attend to see what makes this place so popular, the expensive cars line up for blocks, barely a poor-mans car in sight – ok it’s in Meyersdal which is a rich area”.

    I’ll watch some videos on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtm2_dMH80tRgIYG_ViV-KQ/playlists

    Is there any teaching in particular that you have heard that does not sit right with you?

    The One Eyed Symbolism doesn’t make me at all happy, let’s hope it was not intentional:

    Lewen Sentrum Gemeente Alberton - One Eye Symbolism

  27. Hi D.W. Cusens,

    I notice that Stephan Joubert delivered a sermon in LewenSentrum on the Kingdom of God on 5 May 2019. He mentions Eugene Peterson right in the beginning who believes, like Joubert that the Kingdom of God is already here on earth.

    EUGENE PETERSON PREFERS POETRY AND FICTION OVER BIBLE STUDY
    November 21, 2005
    TBC Staff
    The importance of poetry and novels is that the Christian life involves the use of the imagination, after all, we are dealing with the invisible. And, imagination is our training in dealing with the invisible, making connections . . . .

    I don’t want to do away with or denigrate theology or exegesis, but our primary allies in this business are the artists . . . . Why do people spend so much time studying the Bible? How much do you need to know? We invest all this time in understanding the text which has a separate life of it’s own and we think we’re being more pious and spiritual when we’re doing it . . . . [Christians] should be studying it less, not more. You just need enough to pay attention to God . . . . I’m just not at all pleased with all the emphasis on Bible study as if it’s some kind of special thing that Christians do, and the more they do the better.” [“A Conversation with Eugene Peterson,” “Mars Hill Review,” Fall 1995, Issue No. 3: pgs 73-90.]

    [TBC: It is shocking, but not surprising, that Peterson esteems Bible study so little. While claiming to be a Greek and Hebrew scholar on one hand, Peterson regularly abandons definitions from Strong’s (and other trusted sources) for his own poetic “translation” into today’s “lingo.” That such carelessness is applauded by leading evangelicals is astounding. Peterson is much more careful with his interviews today — but these earlier comments reveal his rationale for taking such “creative liberty” with Scripture in his corrupted “paraphrase” of God’s Word called “The Message.” Peterson says, “imagination is our training in dealing with the invisible.” What an astounding contradiction of God’s Word! (which says): “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Timothy:2:15
    ); “All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works” (2 Timothy:3:16-17).]

    https://www.thebereancall.org/content/eugene-peterson-prefers-poetry-and-fiction-over-bible-study

    Stephan Joubert, like Euegene Peterson, doesn’t like it when you study the Bible and, therefore, you must listen to their abhorrent twisting of God’s Word

    As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:16)

  28. Thanks Tom

    Well there we have it. You know churches start off seemingly ok, and slowly but surely slip in false teaching little by little to the dumbed down congregation who have left their brains at the door. As time goes by the Pastor will introduce more Pastors who preach even more rubbish. It’s the slow indoctrination that ensnares everyone in the end.

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