The General Conversation Section – If You Don’t Know Where to Say it, Say it Here!
This is the General Conversation Section.
If You Don’t Know Where to Say it, Say it Here!
Under this section you can discuss anything you want.
It can be a Q & A section or a ‘Have you heard’ section…
But please do try and stick to commenting under the relevant Article before commenting here.
Thomas I believe the Holy Spirit has taught me everything that I know concerning our Lord Jesus Christ, His church and the Word itself. You believe the same concerning those things as it pertains to you. Did the Holy Spirit lie to one of us? No of course not.
I did not post my personal belief concerning the church for the sake of arguing. I choose not to do that because of my getting very upset when we were in the Baptism Thread.
So with that in mind, and also what I believe the Holy Spirit led me to believe I will not discuss this topic any more. I wish to remain agreeable with you Thomas. After all when all is said, posted and done, this is a blog. A good one I agree; but it still remains a useful blog when exposing heresy. I enjoy all of the articles here.
Sharon.
We can see in scripture that the church is being referred to as the bride of Christ. Look very carefully at the following scripture: Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. It is the Spirit of Christ that makes us His. It is the Spirit of Christ that makes us His bride. It is the Spirit of Christ that makes us His church. There can never ever be a church of Christ without His Holy Spirit, not in future, neither in the past.
Sharon wrote
There’s no need to become upset. I fail to see that you can be agreeable with me when we do not agree. What is heresy? Well, I suppose it pertains to everything that is not in harmony with Scripture.
Thomas Lessing (Watch and Pray / Waak en Bid) wrote:
Thomas…I’m not upset at all. I just do not want to go back to the place like it was in Baptism. I really am not upset. Just don’t want a repeat. :o)
Hans wrote:
I understand all that you said. They had the head of the true church, Jesus Christ right there with them face to face. The Holy Spirit could not come until Jesus left the planet. Jesus told them to wait until they were endued with power from on high. Then when the Holy Spirit came those believers in the upper room were filled with the Holy Spirit. Those church members then had the power to do what Jesus told them in person that their mission was. They turned the world upside down for the Lord.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Sharon wrote:
Contending for the faith is a command. It is not about how we feel or how much upset we should get when there is no agreement. The right thing to do is to search the Scriptures to see what they have to say about the subjects we are discussing and NOT to remain so adamantly insensitive to what the Bible teaches that we fail to see any truth. Do you still believe that the church was instituted before Pentecost?
You wrote to Hans:
God knew from ancient eternities that He was going to establish the church (unite Jewish and Gentile believers into One Body). And so, we can surmise that Jesus had always been the Head of the church, even though it had not been in existence then. It only became a reality when the Holy Spirit was poured out on Penetecost. IN the very same way Jesus was crucified before the foundation of the world and yet it only became a reeality on that day when He was actually crucified, When God makes a promise it is though it has already been done in his mind. But for us it only becomes a reality when it actually occurs.
You also said:
If you truly believe that it was the Holy Spirit who led you to believe the things you hold to, then you dare not remain silent. Jesus once said that the Holy Spirit will only reveal to us what He had said and taught. As such, everything the Holy Spirit revealed to you MUST of necessity be the Gospel truth. Remember the Holy Spirit will never teach you ANYTHING that is contrary to the Word of God. Are you sure it was the Holy Spirit who led you to believe what you believe? How do you know it was the Holy Spirit? How did you discern that it was the Holy Spirit who led you?
These are sound words from one who has received a sound mind. You are such a joy, Thomas!
As far as I know there is not a single example from the Bible of a guy whose calling was to be a “faith healer”. Is that correct? Why then are millions of people following these people like Andrew Wommack and others? Where does concept come from?
Thomas, I will not be drawn into another debate. I have walked with our Lord Jesus for 51 of my 59 years. I know when the Holy Spirit is “talking/teaching” me. I am not a novice in my walk with our Savior. With all respect I think you like debating a bit too much; but that is JMO. I love and respect you and Deborah; after all we are family.
I wish God’s blessing on both you,Deborah and this blog.
In Christ,
Sharon Griffith
Louisiana, USA
Sharon wrote:
This is your duty:
I merely reminded you of your duty. If you don’t like it, that’s just fine with me.
I really don’t mind whether you respect me or not. Your duty is to respect God and his Word and the way to do it is to obey Him and his Word. If He says “TEST” then you should TEST and not rely on your own instincts that the Holy Spirit talks/teaches you while you blatantly contradict his Word.
I have NEVER, I repeat NEVER drawn anyone into a debate and I will never draw anyone into a debate. It is your prerogative whether you want to debate me or not, and this you have been doing with great gusto. Do you really think you alone have the right to write whatever you want to on this blog and that I should refrain from answering you from Scripture? You must be kidding.
Please don’t debate me again, ever.
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Thomas, oh my. Why so harsh in your response? I know that my duty is to God alone.No I don’t think I have any “rights” on this blog. But it is what it is.
I do promise that I wish you and Deborah well. We all need the peace of our Lord in these most trying times in which we live. May we all have the courage of our Lord in the days ahead.
Until He Comes,
Sharon
Sharon wrote
Well, you were the one who said you are ending the debate. So, don’t blame me. I merely reiterated what you said.
You wrote:
Experience is no surety against deception. The only surety is to obey God and his Word (1 John 4:1; Matthew 24:4).
Harsh?? The worst kind of harshness is to persist in error while you know it could lead many astray, especially young converts.
Please don’t twist my words. I never said you don’t have any rights on this blog. I said you usurp the right to pen down your thoughts and when I do it is because you “think I like debating a bit too much.” So, what you actually said was “Tone down your debating, you are doing it a bit too much.” That is not merely being harsh but downright ill-mannered.
Sharon
Your comment to Thomas, “With all respect I think you like debating a bit too much” is telling him that he should in fact keep quiet. Thomas will not keep quiet as he speaks the gospel truth, if you don’t like it then please keep quiet and stop trying to debate him.
Dan
You are spot on, in fact I thought about this the other day. The concept comes from Satan who has taken the verse, Matthew 10:8 “…you will heal the sick” and made a business out of it.
Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:
Deborah, All I meant by Thomas’ debating was just that it seems to me that it is almost a sport for him & he thoroughly enjoys it. There was no disrespect from me directed at him. Then you are putting words into my mouth by saying that I was telling Thomas to be quiet. I did not say it nor did I imply it. I don’t mind people commenting on something I have posted whether they disagree with me or they agree with me. I was the one that said I didn’t want to “debate or argue” lest it get like it was before we 3 apologized to each other. I have not tried to debate Thomas in this thread. I stated that I didn’t want to debate or argue.
Here is my paragraph stating I didn’t want to debate or argue:
(In another thread I said that I did not believe the true Church of our Lord Jesus Christ was started at Pentecost but that it was empowered at Pentecost. I am posting this for a specific purpose. I am not trying to start up something as some other topics do. I am no theologian and I don’t expect any one to agree. If you do not agree with me then please let us believe differently and say so without malice and arguing. Those two things can really wear down a persons testimony. I am not correcting anyone that reads this. I only am giving my personal viewpoint on the topic of the Lord’s true church. S0… …peace to any who read this.) All I was wanting to do was give my reasoning from Scripture as it concerns the true church of our Lord Jesus. Because Thomas & I disagree does that make either of us a heretic? As a gesture of kindness I told both you and Thomas that I respected you. He threw it back into my face, “I really don’t care if you respect me or not.” Did my attempt at a compliment deserve that type of reply? I did NOT expect a compliment in return but I also didn’t expected to get blasted for stating my compliments to both of you.
I will abide by your “rebuke” directed at me. (That is unscriptural of course. 1Tim 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren; 1Tim 5:2 The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.) But this is your blog and I will be quiet (which is basically telling me to “shut-up.”)oops I put words in your mouth, sorry.
Until Jesus Calls Us Up,
Sharon Griffith
Louisiana, USA
Sharon wrote”
Your’e right, I really do thoroughly enjoy every moment when I try to contend for the faith as I was commanded to do (Jude 1:3). You are being facetious to suggest that I regard contending for the faith as a sport. That’s the kind of flippancy and ad-hominem attacks people resort to when they are unable to answer easy questions.
How can I believe you when you say you respect me when you show so little respect for God’s Word? Your twisting of God’s Word is not the way to show respect for God, or is it?
Then I suggest you show some real respect and not feign respect as you’ve done so far. I am more than a decade older than you. However, I repeat what I had said earlier. I really don’t care whether you respect me or not. That is of no concern to me. What I do expect of you is to show some respect for God and his Word.
Why is it so dangerous to believe that the church was started or was instituted before Jesus Christ’s Ascension and Pentecost?
1) It demeans Jesus Christ’s death burial and resurrection. He came to the earth for one purpose – to rend the heavens (tear down the divide between man and God) so that His Holy Spirit could come down from heaven and save and empower them. To fulfill his task, He had to empower the believers to go into all the world and preach his Gospel. That’s why He said: “Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. This could not have happened until they were empowered from on high on the Day of Pentecost. The more I tried to explain to you that the disciples were timid, anxious and even cowardly unbelievers in the resurrection of Jesus Christ and therefore unable to spread the Gospel as a united front in ONE BODY, the more you withstood me. When you could no longer answer me from Scripture, you started to malign me in a very subtle and so-called “respectful” way.
2) It demeans the work of the Holy Spirit. To believe that the church was instituted before Pentecost is to say the Holy Spirit had no part in the birth of the church. Never-mind that, it also makes Jesus a liar who said: “Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.” (John 16:7). Jesus said “I tell you the truth;” YOU say: “Nah Jesus, You are NOT telling the truth. You see, what you don’t seem to understand, is that the church started when you were still on the earth before your Ascension and Pentecost. That in itself proves that the church which was already in existence then enjoyed the full advantage of being a church. And in case you do not understand, let me explain it to you more carefully. Your bodily proximity to your disciples and the church (by that I mean, not yet living IN them) was enough to comply with your words ‘It is expedient for you . . .’ Your very bodily presence obviated (did away with) the necessity for the Holy Spirit to indwell believers as the major requirement to unite believing Jews and Gentiles into ONE BODY so that they may proclaim the Gospel as ONE and with power.”
3) It denies Jesus’ words in Acts 1:8. Once again you are telling Jesus: “Nah, the disciples were already empowered when you were with them before your Ascension and Pentecost. And to prove to you that I am correct, I would like to refer you to the following passages in Scripture – Matthew 26:40; Matthew 26:72; John 20:19).” As you can see from John 20:19 the disciples were scared to death of the Jews even AFTER Jesus had already risen from the dead.
If you can believe that the church already existed before Jesus’ Ascension and Pentecost, then you can also believe that the church already existed in the Old Testament. Really???
Sharon
With all due respect, please don’t comment again.
Hi there
Do you have any information on the heretical teaching that Kobus from Spirit ministries taught on that Jesus and Lucifer are one and the same? As far as I am aware this is a Masonic teaching.
Kind regards
Veronica
Veronica wrote:
I know that Mormons and Masons believe that Jesus and Lucifer are either the same person or are brothers. I am not too sure whether Kobus believed this heresy. What I do know is that he attributed his message and his so-called miracles to Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:22-23). As you know there are many false Jesuses who are nothing else than the devil and his demons masquerading as Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:13-15). In this way Kobus inadvertently made Jesus and Lucifer one person.
I wanted to comment under “Prophet Kobus van Rensburg buried instead of risen” but comments are closed. When and why did wonders and miracles stop? I know they did but I lack the scriptural foundation for why. Can anyone help plz?
Dan
Instead of going to another man for healings, you go directly to Jesus in prayer. When you are born again you have the Holy Spirit abiding in you, why go to a pastor to pray to be healed when you can pray DIRECTLY to Jesus. What these people are doing is creating a mediator between you and Jesus, ie the faith healer.
I wish to pose a questions which has me and my hubby thinking about what Jesus said in Mathew 7 v 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Is “In that day” judgement day? and if so surely those who have died now as false prophets know full well that they won’t make it into heaven as they are already now in a place of waiting. We call it jail for a better understanding. Prison comes after the Great White Throne Judgement.
So does it mean that these group of people are still trying to bid for their lives even after they have stayed in jail for all these many years until Judgement day.?
I hope I am explaining myself well. In addition which group of people have cast out demons, prophesied in His name and did many great works. Most of them are the Charismatic movement people, the Laodicean church.
So those of you who still sit under these movements take heed you are not following false prophets and teachers. Come out of her I urge you as time is short and that door of opportunity is about to close in the form of the Rapture.
Thank you and take care and heed the warnings and make sure that you are not one of those who say Lord lord. question your salvation and question the word when spoken by man.
Louise
>> I wish to pose a questions which has me and my hubby thinking about what Jesus said in Mathew 7 v 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Is “In that day” judgement day? and if so surely those who have died now as false prophets know full well that they won’t make it into heaven as they are already now in a place of waiting. We call it jail for a better understanding. Prison comes after the Great White Throne Judgement. So does it mean that these group of people are still trying to bid for their lives even after they have stayed in jail for all these many years until Judgement day.?
22 “Many will say to me in that day” This is the in the last day, the day of judgment, the great day. It will be the time when all men will enter or not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (See 2 Timothy 1:12; 4:8 that speaks of “that day”)
Those who call out “Lord Lord” are those who are still alive and dead come judgement day, they call out “Lord Lord” because they are scared and confused, they are not bidding, they just can’t understand why they are not entering heaven especially since they were the preachers with all the power to heal and speak in tongues etc.
I am reading a book written by AW Tozer where he “tackles” the worldliness of the church and had a good chuckle at one of his observations. Actually it is spot-on, very true and sad but the picture I saw in my mind was funny.
Tozer wrote: The evangelical church is just a vanity fair. There are little puddles of godliness, lying here and there but no rivers of godliness, just little puddles and most of these puddles have wiggle worms in them and a few toads around the edges. Just puddles. God wants us to have rivers and the reason we don’t have rivers is we are not hearing the right voice. It’s just vanity fair religion. Men promote themselves without shame today. (Sermon, “He must increase”)
Blessings
Jean
I don’t think that Tozer had many friends in the churches. He kept on stepping on toes . . . 🙂
“Any objection to the carryings on of our present gold-calf Christianity is met with the triumphant reply,
“But we are winning them!”
And winning them to what?
To true discipleship?
To cross-carrying?
To self-denial?
To separation from the world?
To crucifixion of the flesh?
To holy living?
To nobility of character?
To a despising of the world´s treasures?…”
-A.W.Tozer
Blessings
Jean
Jean
Just beware A.W Tozer was into contemplative prayer.
Tozer says: “Stay in the secret place till the surrounding noises begin to fade out of your heart and a sense of God’s presence envelopes you … Listen for the inward Voice till you learn to recognize it” (Whitney, Spiritual Disciplines, p. 199, quoting from The Best of A.W. Tozer, 1978, pp. 151-152).
Hi Debs
Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:
Ag nee man Debs !. . . you just spoiled all my fun ! I was so enjoying sitting in my Lotus position with my eyes closed, soft sounds of “moaning” whales flooding the room and letting the waves of good feelings flow over me . . . sigh . . .
Ha ha ha . . . Just pulling your leg Debs !
Your right and Tozer also had a “healthy” interest in the mystics.
The following from his autobiography written by Snyder:
Sadly, Tozer was a bit of a rebel and did not do all his “studying” from the Bible.
Keep up the good work Debs, we keep you in our prayers . . . I mean, you have a full-time job keeping “naughty” boys like me on the right track ! 😉
Blessings
Jean
If we have been saved by the finished work of Jesus on the cross; we are sealed by the Holy Spirit; we will never be condemned for sins; we are safe from the judgment of God as a result AND we can’t lose our Salvation – why is it necessary for both the Holy Spirit and Jesus to intercede for us? This is serious business. Is there something about the doctrine of Salvation that I’m missing?
Dan wrote:
Because it is the intercession (prayers) of Jesus and the Holy Spirit that keeps us saved to the very uttermost. They do not pray for us because there is a possibility that we may lose our salvation.
Hi All, I have a question for the panel. If the Anti Christ comes from the abyss then what is he doing on earth 3 and a half years earlier confirming a peace treaty. I am battling to get this answer and most people say no his spirit comes from the abyss but thats not what the word tells me. He physically comes from the abyss when the Angel with the keys opens up. Why I am asking this question is that there is a school of thought that Nimrod is the Anti Christ. Let me have your feed back and if you know of any good teachings will you let me have the link. Thank you.