Chuck Missler and Roger Oakland Exposed
Chuck Missler and Roger Oakland Exposed: Do Not be Unequally Yoked Together with Unbelievers
It is with a very heavy heart that I re-post this article because there is a man who I looked up to that I am now going to expose – Roger Oakland.
I had previously done an article on Chuck Missler here: Dr. Chuck Missler, SWANsat and the Auricâ„¢ Currency and one on his Wife, Nancy Missler here: Nancy Missler and Henrietta Mears but the time has come to expose Roger Oakland. Unfortunately Roger Oakland is in the middle of all this. I dunno how he got there, only he knows why he is associating with such a man as Chuck Missler and Ron Matsen.
The Bible is very clear on the matter on who you associate with.
2 Corinthians 6:14 “14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?”
UPDATED 12/5/2016 – Please read article at the very end of this article regarding William P Welty, Chuck Missler, Ron Matsen and a SHOCKING new book released in May 2016 about Mary the mother of God – the Queen of Heaven.
Note: Articles posted by DTW are not an endorsement of the author, their website, ministry or any links therein. Readers are cautioned to use discernment at all times and test everything by the Word of God.
source: http://www.khouse.org/pages/the_joy_of_teaching_gods_word/chapter_4/
source: http://www.khouse.org/articles/2005/608/
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source: http://www.understandthetimes.org/updates/july1411.shtml
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Audio:
[audio:http://www.cornerstonemultimedia.net/CCF/guests/120207/roakland4.mp3|titles=Chuck Missler Supports Roger Oakland]
Source: http://www.cornerstonemultimedia.net/CCF/guests/120207/rogeroakland.htm
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Source: http://isv.org/about.php (New Website, old image above)
Source: http://isv.org/principles.php (New Website, old image above)
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Link to Granite History website
Source: http://hpi.design.iastate.edu/content/EMIL_Postcard_final.pdf
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Source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/agirregabiria/5819888078/in/photostream/
Justo Lacunza ante el Grupo Vasco del Club de Roma 5/9
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAK594MJk_Y]
Chuck Missler on TBN – 08/21/2008
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CQ_hQVfsOI]
Source: http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/1008717/detail
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Source: http://www.promisekeepers.org.nz/speakers.html
Brian Hughes also has no problem being ECUMENICAL with Roman Catholics –
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Source: http://www.riverlodge.co.nz/lodge
Source: http://www.calvarychapel.org.nz
Source of article: ephesians511blog.blogspot.com
Please read here from more on Roger Oakland: ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2012/01/roger-oakland-enigma-revealed-in-these.html“> Roger Oakland, an enigma revealed in these last days
Proof that Roger Oakland was contacted numerous times about Chuck Missler MONTHS before the article went live on the internet – ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2012/01/response-to-comments-on-galatians-4.html
Response to comments on Galatians 4 blog [Warning: If you decide to go to GalationsFour blog from ephesians511blog please use discernment when entering GalationsFour website, they are vehemently anti Pre-Trib which means they hold to the Roman Catholic Post-Trib.] ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2012/01/response-to-comments-on-galatians-4.html
UPDATED: A couple of years later Roger Oakland is STILL sharing a stage with Chuck Missler: Roger – A Fraud Perpetrated Upon Believers
NEW!! UPDATED: 5/12/2016 – Please read this SHOCKING news about William P Welty, Chuck Missler, Ron Matsen and a new book released in May 2016 about Mary the mother of God: William Welty and Koinonia House – the Adoration of Mary book.
Okayyy..so hopefully I will start to get things straight from now on! lol. Please forgive me and bear with me, as I feel like a runner who is lagging behind all the rest of you sprinters! I commented elsewhere about Chuck Missler, then I found this thread about him, and realised that I did not need to inform anyone on DTW, about his antics. So apologies to Debs and Michael Anthony for that mistake.
Myfanwy
No worries…
By the way you will catch up quickly 🙂
What is the deal with Missler? I have always listened to him and learned from his lectures.
Jay
>> What is the deal with Missler? I have always listened to him and learned from his lectures.
Did you read the article?
I have just posted the latest article titled “Is Chuck Missler & William Welty partnered with antichrist?” –
http://ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2012/07/is-chuck-missler-william-welty.html
4 September, 2012 at 6:55 PM
Hi,
My name is Anthony. After reading some of the posts and articles on your website about Chuck Missler and other popular “christian ministers”, I have one question that I hope I can get a few replies to, mabey its a foolish question, but here goes. If all the ministries and leaders of these ministries mentioned on this website are teaching a lot of heretical doctrine (and I believe their is a lot of that around now days, Paul said that would be the case and already was to some extent in his day), how is it that these people have such an understanding ,especially in Missler’s case, of the Bible?
Isen’t there one particular verse in the bible, and I know others as well on the subject, that says “the natural man cannot understand the things of the spirit because they are foolishness to him and spiritually discerned”. Jesus also repeatedly said “those who have eyes to see and ears to hear let them hear what the spirit says”. It is the holy spirit that allows someone to understand the word of God and if a person does not have the spirit of God or is open to the spirits leading how can they understand the bible, much less teach from it?
I ask because I use to always read prophecy books when I was younger and was looking for God. The books I found very interesting but everytime I picked up the bible and promised myself I would read it for a while I always put it away after a few minutes because I could never understand what I read. It made no sense to me, so how can it to the teachers mentioned, if they are not genuinley saved or seeking to be saved? In other words,can the bible be understood by anyone, even so called “false teachers”?
I also agree with one of the posts made on this site in reference to information presented about Joyce Myers. Like the person who commented and posted I do not listen to Joyce’s ministry, and I too believe plenty of heresy ,false teaching and deception abound now days, as I mentioned above. I myself look too much into these things and am quick to judge. Most times I feel right doing so because I think deception has become prevelent. The person who posted,though made a very good point I believe , and that is about not judging in anger everyone who seems to be preaching unsound doctrine. In one epistle Paul said it is a small thing to him that others were judging him because he felt he was not qualified to judge himself and if anything was unsound to rebuke and exhort in love with long suffering and not being given over to arguments. Okay mabey that was a couple of Epistles worth of scriptures, but non the less it seems like a fine line between becoming a pharisee and genuinley expressing concern about false teaching the way Jesus would.
Love to hear from anyone on my question and comment.
Thx and God Bless.
Anthony
Chuck Missler for example is a brilliant man with a very high IQ, the bible speaks about wise men who are very learned but are in fact fools. This is why they can preach truth but there is a lot of error. They know enough to pass themselves off as a ‘man of god’ to the unlearned who are fooled into thinking they speak the truth and nothing but the truth.
These men are hypocrites, a hypocrite is an ACTOR, they act the part well don’t they, because if they didn’t then Jesus would never have to warn us about these people. You see a genuine Christian preaches the truth and nothing but the truth all the time, and IF he does make an error he is humble enough to realise it and admit his wrong doing because of the guidance of the Holy Spirit in his life. These wise men do not admit they make errors, and will never publicly apologise or adjust or make amends what they believe, or who they have befriended, in fact their teaching will get worse and worse.
>> I also agree with one of the posts made on this site in reference to information presented about Joyce Myers. Like the person who commented and posted I do not listen to Joyce’s ministry, and I too believe plenty of heresy ,false teaching and deception abound now days, as I mentioned above. I myself look too much into these things and am quick to judge.
Oh boy…you didn’t bother to listen to the audio did you? No wonder you get caught out so easily.
I would really like to be able to read your article but the site format makes it extremely difficult to do on a mobile device.The pictures and whatever else in your back ground overshadows all of your article and most of the comments.
Then read it on a laptop like a normal person 🙂
If anything your starting out phrase of scriputure tell me alot about you…your saying by quote of a scripture they dont believe and that kiddo is a lie..and you take all this energy to make this and slam people..hmmmmmm..wheres your hate comming from .twisting things to get people to follow you and your work..now thats a false prophet…youll answer 1 day.God wants people to teach his word not slam people..judge not.condemn not..better take alot of ice sounds like ya could be headed some place warm
And you screen what people say huh..hahahaha..o brother
Nightmairz
Do you prefer to be misled into all kinds of false teaching or do you rather prefer to follow Jesus (the Truth)?
Missler states that the Nephilim were not all killed in the flood of Noah times. But, the scriptures say they were. People, Jesus promised to send us the “Holy Spirit” who will “Lead us to ALL Truth”. If that is the promise, then believe that there is NO WAY the Holy Spirit would lead us to believe a lie. All true believers in Christ are “orthodox Bible”, and have the indwelling Holy Spirit.
He gives us a strong “gut instinct”. All I can say is I got that “yuk” feeling when I started listening to Missler. And, then he leaves the “flock” and runs off to New Zealand. What? I think he think America, Babylon is going down and has fled. Just my take on things.
I wonder if the Apostles, when they were going to meet together and give speeches on prophecy sent out fliers saying, “THE MOST AWESOME PROPHECY TEACHER EVER! CONFERENCE DATES: SECURE YOUR SEAT, THEY’RE MOVING FAST! ONLY 95.00 PER TICKET!” “TRUE MAN OF GOD, THE APOSTLE PAUL, SAW JESUS ON THE ROAD TO DAMASCUS, COMING SOON. COCKTAIL HOUR BEGINS AT 5 P.M. , TAKE A BREAK, STAY AT THE 5 STAR MOST AWESOME HOTEL IN IDAHO! RELAX WITH FRIENDS, ASK THESE GREAT TEACHERS, QUESTION AND ANSWER STARTS AT 10 P.M. OOOPS! SOLD OUT!
(I don’t think so.) I don’t think the Apostles behaved in this manner. )
Hi,
I stumbled upon this blog by doing some digging. I know it’s been a while, but there has been a new development in all of this. I know about this and many of the details as well when I stumbled upon them years ago (and am familiar with many of these commentor’s blogs too). I do enjoy many good things about LT, but there were also a few concerns. I will list them first below:
1. Even though there is association (Roger said he considers Chuck Smith to be his pastor in a UTT newsletter and associates with the movement), LT seems to frown on the gifts being for today and the fact that we can hear from God (still small voice, etc.). That is a red flag for me.
2. In many books and writings I have seen the recurrent theme that ‘the Jews are God’s people.’ Prophetically there is much to be said, but in a nutshell, we are not God’s people until we enter into the covenant with Jesus, and that goes for both Jews and Gentiles.
3. In one early book about Marian apparitians, in one of the last chapters there is a reference to both Chuck Missler and Tim LaHaye. Granted, it is an old book, but still.
4. On the News for the Masses Blog I ran into something about them too, how they expose or refrain from exposing in groups, and that Chuck Missler and Tim LaHaye run in the same wolf pack and details pertaining to exposure by LT.
Thoughts: I think one issue could be that they sign contracts early on about collaboration between ministries and then pay the price later, which is why this should never be done.
Well, recently Roger has ‘come out from retirement.’ The statement went that he had gone into retirement to help the orphanages because ‘he was tired of warning those who don’t want to listen,’ and something about ‘letting them have their deception.’ But now on here I read a totally different account of cancelling conferences and getting away from ‘cut throat Christianity’ as being the account given back then, so why did the story change? And, either it is right or wrong to hold these conferences, so why cancel and hide over the discovery of a fact? It appears to me to be the ‘lay low for a while’ tactic.
So now that Roger is back in action, he advertised two conferences he will hold about the emergent church, one at Calvary Cypress and one at Hosanna Chapel in Bellflower, both in CA in early Feb (just over). He also opened up a facebook page. At the time I knew nothing of the earlier account of why he retired. I posted a positive comment of encouragement. Later, though I wasn’t able to go or listen to the conferences and know nothing of what was said, I felt an urge to post a warning on the UTT facebook page about Chuck Smith (since there is always affirmation of all things Chuck, and cover up of his elbow linking with Rick Warren in 2009 at times). I wouldn’t even have brought it up but in a recent newsletter mentioning the conferences, there was another tip of the hat to Chuck. I left a series of quotes by Chuck Smith from various books and writings where he claims that all denominations (including Catholics) are ‘one body.’ Total false ecumenism! In another book ‘distinctives,’ he goes on to promote marketing strategies for church growth and priding himself in how ‘no one really knows where Calvary stands’ on doctrine! As a believer, I want others to know exactly where I stand, and so does the body collective, if you are a Christian church and not a business! The quotes are shocking. You can google and find them also. Well, I posted them on the FB page. Truth is truth, just as all that I am saying now is, facts are facts. I’m not happy about it, I’m not gloating in gossip, but it is true and people need to know. So anyway, I checked back a couple of days later, and all the quotes were removed, even the first one! Just gone. I looked all over but nothing. Why are they hiding this stuff, like it’s some kind of cover up? If you are really warning the flock, then warn about all the dangers. Sure, there is much to warn about and you can have a specific ‘focus,’ but this is different since Chuck is still openly promoted, even after embracing Rick Warren. Why?!
In fact, I will include the quotes below in the next comment.
Proof that Chuck Smith Sr. is ecumenical with Catholics, that he denies that the truth of God’s Word is what unites Christians, and that he employs church growth marketing strategies (that he learned from Peter Drucker, a man he admittedly admires).
He states, “You know the beautiful thing about being called Calvary Chapel? People don’t know where you really stand… Calvary Chapel has a sort of mystique about it. “What do these people believe?” “I don’t know, but let’s go find out.” And the whole field is ours. You want to fish in as big a pond as you can find. When you’re marketing something, you want the largest market appeal possible. So don’t chop up the market and say, “Well, we’re just going to fish in this little market here.” Keep the market broad. (pg. 49, 50)” “Calvary Chapel Distinctives.”
“We are not a denominational church, nor are we opposed to denominations as such, only their over-emphasis of doctrinal differences that have led to the division of the body of Christ. We believe that the only true basis of Christian fellowship is His (Agape) love, which is greater than any differences we possess and without which we have no right to claim ourselves Christians” (Statement of Faith, Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa).
Chuck Smith, founder of the Calvary Chapels, is very ecumenical. In a 1993 book he says: “We should realize that we’re all part of the Body of Christ and that there aren’t any real divisions in the Body. We’re all one. What a glorious day when we discover that God loves the Baptists! — And the Presbyterians, and the Methodists, and the Catholics. We’re all His and we all belong to Him. We see the whole Body of Christ, and we begin to strive together rather than striving against one another” (Smith, Answers for Today, p. 157).
Chuck Smith’s ecumenism is also evident from a statement quoted in the December 1995 issue of Sojourner magazine. “Paul points out that some say, ‘I’m of Paul,’ while others say, ‘I’m of Apollos.’ He asked, ‘Isn’t that carnal?’ But what’s the difference between saying that or saying, ‘I’m a Baptist,’ ‘I’m a Presbyterian,’ ‘I’m a Methodist,’ ‘I’m a Catholic’? I have found that the more spiritual a person becomes, the less denominational he is. We should realize that we’re all part of the Body of Christ and that there aren’t any real divisions in the Body. We’re all one.”
End quotes. So there it is, ecumenism with Catholics etc., denying that unity is around the truth of the bible, and employing marketing/business strategies from the harlot sculptor; Peter Drucker (bad news) for church growth by hiding what is stood for; the opposite of what the church should be doing!
And then, why the silence? If I am misunderstood, I’m on fire to clear up the record, not remain silent. But that is an answer in itself. And removing the facts about Chuck Smith is another interesting move.
Anyway, just wanted to share this for what it’s worth.
God bless!
Thank you SheepDog for the valuable information you gave us.
Marion – That which you wrote so well on 11 January, 2012 at 7:03 pm is so much more true now, 4 years and 4 months later.
The lesson from all the deception that is going on that those very few who truly are Biblically “born again” believers and followers of “the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ” must remember – is what ‘the weeping prophet’ wrote:
“Thus saith the LORD;
Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.”
(Jeremiah 17:5 ~ KJV)
Those very few who truly are ‘Biblical CHRISTians’ – we must ALL learn – and remember – and most seriously think about – and apply that which C.H. Spurgeon wrote over 100 years ago –
– DISCERNMENT is not knowing the difference between right and wrong.
– It is knowing the difference between RIGHT
– and ALMOST right.
And the only way to Biblically “KNOW the certainty of the words of truth” is to read, study, and PRAY for “the Holy Ghost” to teach us “the truth” that is written in ‘the Operators Manual for Life’ ~ the Holy Bible [KJV]:
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind,
and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so”
(Acts 17:11 ~ KJV) ~ AND 2 Timothy 2:15 [KJV]
– AND remember that we are in a 24/7/365 war – just exactly as we are told in “the word of the Lord”:
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
(Ephesians 6:12 ~ KJV)
– For there are fewer and ever-fewer Biblically sound sources that give reliable STRONG WARNING against evil
– Which leads me to wonder how deeply “Lucifer”, “the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan” – the ‘master counterfeiter’ has infiltrated into that which is called ‘Christianity’ – the ‘Lukewarm Ecumenical Compromising Church’ here in ‘Amerika’, Great Britain, Australia, and the rest of the ‘Westernized world?
“… Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?” ~ (Luke 18:8 ~ KJV)
It is a fact that false teaching and “false teachers” are often very difficult to spot, and are much more destructive than most people realize, and these fal$e teaching$$$$$$ are becoming exponentially more frequent and “subtil” – which is why those who truly are believers and followers of “our Lord and Saviour” must be evermore vigilant and pray for Biblical discernment in these increasingly evil times that we are living in – – – RIGHT NOW
It is my Biblical understanding that we are definitely now at the point where EVERY pastor/teacher/ministry should be closely checked with Biblical discernment in accordance with Acts 17:11 and 2 Timothy 2:15 [KJV]
– for there is such an exponential increase of ‘spiritual darkness’ because of people ‘falling for’ ‘FAL$E TEACHER$$$$$$’ and ‘FAL$E PROFIT$$$$$$’ and their teaching$$$$$$ of non-Biblical “heresies” via delusions – deceptions – deliberate deceits – irrationality – confusion – AND ‘Verbal $emantic$’ – not only here in ‘Amerika’ – but all around the world
– for that which happened before the first coming of “the Lord Jesus Christ” is happening yet again – the denial and mis-understanding by most of ‘the religious crowd’ of “the certainty of the words of truth”
– But this time it is occurring before the appearing ‘in the air’ of “the Lord Jesus Christ” for the ‘pre-tribulation Rapture’ of His “church”.
*** Please read and think very seriously about the article written 350 years ago – by William Dell in 1666 on ‘False Prophets’ – ‘The Trial Of Spirits – Both In Teachers And Hearers’ | Apologetics Coordination Team (ACT) @ http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/thetrialofspirits.html
Those very few who truly are ‘Biblical CHRISTians’ must constantly pray for Biblically wisdom and discernment in these increasingly ‘spiritually black’ end times of constant exponential increases of Satanically inspired and led attacks – about which I recently read a comment that was along the lines of
‘You Christians are in a full scale war – and you don’t even know it!
You are being attacked by the evil powers of darkness through spells – and incantations – and musick – and symbols – and colours – and ‘verbal semantics’ – ad nauseum . . . . . .
– yet you do not even know what is going on… because you are playing church!
You will not read, study, or really believe “the certainty of the words of truth” that are written in the Holy Bible [KJV] – while Satan is going for your jugular vein!’
Yet – How very-very few that call themselves ‘Christians’ there are that truly and continually believe and heed the STRONG BIBLICAL WARNINGS about the total and utter malevolent evil, hatred, and “subtilty” against all mankind by ‘the evil one’ and his followers – Just exactly as we are STRONGLY WARNED about in “the word of the Lord” – that “the Devil” is “full of all subtilty and all mischief”, and that he and his followers will never “cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord”:
“Be sober, be vigilant;
because your adversary the devil,
as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
(1 Peter 5:8 ~ KJV)
Every one who is truly a Biblically “born again” “believeth” follower of “the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ” should read – and believe – and heed that which “our beloved brother Paul” WARNED about in “the word of the Lord”, the Holy Bible [KJV]:
“For such are false apostles, deceitful workers,
transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel;
for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness;
whose end shall be according to their works.
(2 Corinthians 11:13-15 ~ KJV)
.
Dear Bro Nick
I see this is the second time you have quoted Charles Spurgeon. Can I please ask you, are you a Calvinist?
Marion wrote on 7 June, 2012 at 6:41 pm about whom we should trust to teach us Biblically sound Doctrine and Theology.
It is my personal Biblical understanding that she ‘hit the nail on the head’ – for it is written that “the Lord Jesus Christ” personally said:
“And I say unto you,
Ask, and it shall be given you;
seek, and ye shall find;
knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
For every one that asketh receiveth;
and he that seeketh findeth;
and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.”
(Luke 11:9-10 ~ KJV)
My closest ‘brother in Jesus Christ’ is an itenerant, non-denominational Kenyan pastor who owns one book ~ ‘The Book’, the Holy Bible [KJV].
Brother John calls me on his cell-phone from Kenya, and we have wonderful God-centered fellowship. He has such real and practical Biblical understanding and discernment of Biblical truth that comes because of his very real trust in “the Holy Ghost” to teach him “the certainty of the words of truth” – and he knows “the truth” that “the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy” doth reveal to those that seek HIM.
How and why – Because it is “the truth”:
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways,
and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
(Isaiah 55:8-9 ~ KJV)
How many of us really believe what “the only wise God” hath told us? – or do we choose to trust men?
“Whom shall he teach knowledge?
and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?
them that are weaned from the milk,
and drawn from the breasts.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line;
here a little, and there a little:”
(Isaiah 28:9-10 ~ KJV)
How those of us who truly are Biblically “born again” beievers and followers of “our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ”
– we should spend more time reading, and praying, and studying, and “by faith” believe and trust that we may “know the certainty of the words of truth” that are written in “the word of the Lord” – for “the Lord Jesus Christ” personally said:
“These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things,
and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you:
not as the world giveth, give I unto you.
Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.”
(John 14:25-27 ~ KJV)
.
Deborah – Thank you for being concerned and honest enough to ask. No – I am not a Calvinist – But I give credit to the man that made that statement about Biblical Discernment – which is even more necessary in these increasingly ‘spiritually black’ ‘end times’ that we are living in – – RIGHT NOW
“Knowing this first,
that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming?
for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
(2 Peter 3:3-4 ~ KJV)
As your article and the comments have made very clear – there are many-many that call themselves ‘Christians’
– they are at the best deceived – and at the worst the willing and wanton ministers of Satan – but no wonder, for it is written:
“For such are false apostles, deceitful workers,
transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel;
for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness;
whose end shall be according to their works.
(2 Corinthians 11:13-15 ~ KJV)
My personal belief is that Biblical Salvation is by ‘Grace alone – through Faith alone ~ in the Lord Jesus Christ alone’ – and in the ‘pre-tribulation Rapture’ of “the church” – which is of only those who are truly Biblically “born again” believers and followers of “our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ”
– And I know “the certainty of the words of truth”:
“He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly.
Amen.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be WITH you all.
Amen.”
(Revelation 22:20-21 ~ KJV)
.
Thanks Bro Nick for your reply 🙂
Here is a thought to ponder on because I have had to deal with this myself, “can I quote false teachers in a favorable light, because what they are saying just happens to be correct?” And I went to the bible for this and I studied and I realised that never once did the prophets of the OT, disciples or Jesus Himself quote from false teachers. If they did quote someone it was to prove a point and show that that person was preaching falsely. So just think about that one… and them let me know what you think 🙂
Dear Sister Deborah – I do apologize for being slow on my responding as you have so kindly done in your greetings. I get very focused on my thoughts.
You make a very valid comment about quoting “false teachers”, those who truly are Biblically called “hirelings’.
It is my personal Biblical understanding that C.H. Spurgeon is not a “false teacher”. I have done very little personal checking about him – for I have actually read very little of what he personally wrote or said.
From one of the comments about him that I did read, it is my understanding that he personally believed in Calvinism – to what degree I do not know – But that he did not strongly emphasize it in his writings or teaching.
There is the very real question that I often wrestle with – where is ‘the line’ between being a fallible human being that has mistaken beliefs and understandings of “the truth” that is written in “the word of the Lord” – because each and every one of us have our ‘personal bumps, and warts, and foibles’
– and I know that mine are very many, for if you know me like I know me – you would not listen or post anything that I write – but if – – – -.
Those few who truly are ‘Biblical CHRISTians’ need to always remember “the certainty of the words of truth”:
“And if any man think that he knoweth any thing,
he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.”
(1 Corinthians 8:2 ~ KJV)
– It is my Biblical understanding that C.H. Spurgeon was a true Biblically “born again” believer and follower of “the Lord Jesus Christ” whom he loved and taught about.
– Also – he is not physically alive to defend himself against what anyone says about him.
I try to very seriously personally consider the answer that “the Lord Jesus Christ” gave when HE was asked about other teachers – that were not saying against HIS teachings:
“And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name;
and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not:
for he that is not against us is for us.”
(Luke 9:49-50 ~ KJV)
When does a person/ministry/denomination ‘cross the line’ and become a Biblical “false teacher” – either through ignorance – or ‘with malice aforethought’?
– Which is an ever-more important question for each of us to ask ourselves in these extremely dangerous ‘end times’ of constant exponential increases in Satanically inspired and led ‘spiritual darkness’ being caused by multitudes of delusions – and deceptions – and deliberate deceits – and ‘Verbal Semantics’ – and confusion – and wickedness – and . . . . . .
It is my personal understanding that there are very-very few Biblically sound believers – or pastors/teachers – or ministries – or denominations – which in my Biblical understanding – is yet another ‘in process’ fulfillment of yet another Biblical Prophecy:
“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water,
but of hearing the words of the LORD:
And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east,
they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.
They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth;
and, The manner of Beer–sheba liveth;
even they shall fall, and never rise up again.”
(Amos 8:11-14 ~ KJV)
Personally – I start to get a questioning ‘in my spirit’ about what a person says or writes. I then pray for God-given discernment and understanding – and do personal checking and research about what their beliefs and teachings actually are (Acts 17:11 | 2 Timothy 2:15 ~ KJV)
When I do my checking, I ask for “the Holy Ghost” to lead me to which articles to read – which interestingly is what led me to do some checking about Roger Oakland last night. I am very thankful to have been led to your website – and specifically to this article.
I had previously found Dr. Chuch Missler to be someone that I Biblically understand is a “false teacher” and “an hireling”. I will not personally read anything by/watch/recommend any of his material/teaching to anyone.
– As Sir Walter Scott wrote – ‘Oh, what a tangled web we weave…when first we practice to deceive.’
– BUT most importantly it is written in “the word of the Lord”:
“But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare,
and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
For the love of money is the root of all evil:
which while some coveted after,
they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
But thou, O man of God, flee these things;
and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
Fight the good fight of faith,
lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.”
(1 Timothy 6:9-12 ~ KJV)
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Dear Bro Nick
I think you need to study what the doctrine of Calvinism is all about and then go and study what Charles Spurgeon really preached and what he really believed. There is a GREAT MISCONCEPTION that Surgeon was a genuine born again man, if he repented of all his false teaching before the died then yes I suppose he was born again but up and until that point he preached the horrendous false gospel of Calvinism’s ‘doctrine of grace’ i.e., 5 points of tulip.
The thing that makes Surgeon so dangerous is that he speaks out of both sides of his mouth, on moment he says man has free will and the next moment he declares that man has no free will and so he goes on. He continuously trashes the gospel of salvation. This is why those looking for the truth fall for his teachings and believe he is not a Calvinist when he was. This is why so many people end up being Calvinist’s themselves because they are subliminally indoctrinated by Charles Spurgeon’s teachings and don’t even know it is happening until the day you question them and they declare they believe in the ‘doctrines of grace’.
You speak so passionately about not following false teachers, yet you are following one and declare he is a true man of God without doing due diligence of testing the spirits. Please test Spurgeon’s teachings. 🙂
Read articles on Spurgeon on this website please. https://www.discerningtheworld.com/category/pastors-teachers-speakers/c/charles-haddon-spurgeon-1834-1892-thomas-spurgeon/
Bro Nick
You said “where is ‘the line’ between being a fallible human being that has mistaken beliefs and understandings of “the truth” that is written in “the word of the Lord”.
Does God say anywhere in the bible that there is a fine line between sinning and not sinning? No, you are either sinning or you are not. However there is a fine line that people can tread and it’s called being ‘luke warm’ and what does God do? He vomits you out. Revelation 3:16 And being luke warm means you are not born again.
A born again person if they ever do preach false teaching the Holy Spirit will warn them that they are, what does the bible say? He leads you into ALL truth John 16:13, not a fine line between truth and lies. And when a genuine believer realises they are speaking falsely they repent to Jesus Christ Himself and then to the public (if they are preaching to the public) and CHANGE their view and keep it that way, not chop and change which ever way the wind blows. Ephesians 4:14
You said, “Also – he is not physically alive to defend himself against what anyone says about him.”
Ah no no, this is not the truth, does that mean I can’t write any article about any false teacher let’s take Simon Magus for example, mentioned in the bible because they are not alive to defend themselves? That means I can’t question any of the Pope’s teachings from previous centuries gone by because they are all dead and can’t defend themselves. Sorry John Paul II you escaped scrutiny because Bro Nick said you can’t be questioned you are dead. Sorry but I have to just laugh a little if you don’t mind. 🙂
Bro. Nick. You wrote:
The Bible doesn’t say we should earnestly contend for Charles Spurgeon and all the other false teachers who once lived on the earth because they no longer live.
It says: “. . . we should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.” (Jude 1:3)
Deborah, so in your opinion Charles Spurgeon was unsaved?
Hi Peter. I asked Bro. Nick to explain to me the difference between Spurgeon’s and the Pharisee’s testimony. Maybe you can help him?
Spurgeon
I suppose there are some persons whose minds naturally incline towards the doctrine of free-will. I can only say that mine inclines as naturally towards the doctrines of sovereign grace. Sometimes, when I see some of the worst characters in the street, I feel as if my heart must burst forth in TEARS OF GRATITUDE that God has never let me act as they have done! I have thought, if God had left me alone, and had not touched me by His grace, what a great sinner I should have been! I should have run to the utmost lengths of sin, dived into the very depths of evil, nor should I have stopped at any vice or folly, if God had not restrained me. I feel that I should have been a very king of sinners, if God had let me alone. I cannot understand the reason why I am saved, except upon the ground that God would have it so.
Pharisee
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I THANK THEE, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luk 18:10-14)
Tom (Discerning the World) – 12 May, 2016 at 4:15 am — You did not even give me the courtesy of asking why I quoted 1 Corinthians 8:2 [KJV] – you told me that I am wrong.
Personally I know that ‘next to what God knows – I know next to nothing at all’ (the words written in a kids song) – for “the Lord God Almighty” says of Himself:
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways,
and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
(Isaiah 55:8-9 ~ KJV)
And:
“Then came the word of the LORD unto Jeremiah, saying,
Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?”
(Jeremiah 32:26-27 ~ KJV)
– so 1 Corinthians 8:2 [KJV] – in my personal Biblical understanding – has multiple meanings – none of which contradict – but supplement each other.
And then you go on to tell me the great evils of TULIP – which I am basically familiar with and do not believe – for I am not a Calvinist – nor an Armenianist of any degree. My desire is to be a ‘Biblical CHRISTian’.
— and then there are 3 more messages judging and condemning C.H. Spurgeon and my comments about him.
Deborah and Tom – About my comment – ‘– Also – he is not physically alive to defend himself against what anyone says about him.’ – I wrote and meant that only about C.H. Spurgeon
— not to or about any of those others in the very partial lists and Scriptures that you gave.
I gather that you truly do think that you know my many-many ‘personal bumps, and warts, and foibles’, and that you also think that you know me like I know me – – – – – –
NO – I am not being falsely humble, for the words of the publican written about in Luke 18:13 [KJV] have very real and deep personal meaning to me:
“God be merciful to me a sinner.”
If you wish to remove any or all of my comments – please feel free to do so – for this is Your ministry. – Nick
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Dear Nick as I see your ‘Bro’ has been taken away.
As we say here in South Africa “EISHHH” (which is like a ‘GHASP’). So upset over so few questions? We are only trying to help you see that Spurgeon is a Calvinist – but you won’t have any of it.
You said, “he is not physically alive to defend himself against what anyone says about him.’ – I wrote and meant that only about C.H. Spurgeon”
Gosh you must really like Spurgeon that much if your logic can only be applied to Spurgeon and no one else…
Ok Nick ‘who says he is not a Calvinist’ you can go now and free yourself from this website and our questions.