Chuck Missler and Roger Oakland Exposed
Chuck Missler and Roger Oakland Exposed: Do Not be Unequally Yoked Together with Unbelievers
It is with a very heavy heart that I re-post this article because there is a man who I looked up to that I am now going to expose – Roger Oakland.
I had previously done an article on Chuck Missler here: Dr. Chuck Missler, SWANsat and the Auricâ„¢ Currency and one on his Wife, Nancy Missler here: Nancy Missler and Henrietta Mears but the time has come to expose Roger Oakland. Unfortunately Roger Oakland is in the middle of all this. I dunno how he got there, only he knows why he is associating with such a man as Chuck Missler and Ron Matsen.
The Bible is very clear on the matter on who you associate with.
2 Corinthians 6:14 “14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?”
UPDATED 12/5/2016 – Please read article at the very end of this article regarding William P Welty, Chuck Missler, Ron Matsen and a SHOCKING new book released in May 2016 about Mary the mother of God – the Queen of Heaven.
Note: Articles posted by DTW are not an endorsement of the author, their website, ministry or any links therein. Readers are cautioned to use discernment at all times and test everything by the Word of God.
source: http://www.khouse.org/pages/the_joy_of_teaching_gods_word/chapter_4/
source: http://www.khouse.org/articles/2005/608/
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source: http://www.understandthetimes.org/updates/july1411.shtml
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[audio:http://www.cornerstonemultimedia.net/CCF/guests/120207/roakland4.mp3|titles=Chuck Missler Supports Roger Oakland]
Source: http://www.cornerstonemultimedia.net/CCF/guests/120207/rogeroakland.htm
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Source: http://isv.org/about.php (New Website, old image above)
Source: http://isv.org/principles.php (New Website, old image above)
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Link to Granite History website
Source: http://hpi.design.iastate.edu/content/EMIL_Postcard_final.pdf
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Justo Lacunza ante el Grupo Vasco del Club de Roma 5/9
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAK594MJk_Y]
Chuck Missler on TBN – 08/21/2008
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CQ_hQVfsOI]
Source: http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/1008717/detail
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Source: http://www.promisekeepers.org.nz/speakers.html
Brian Hughes also has no problem being ECUMENICAL with Roman Catholics –
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Source: http://www.riverlodge.co.nz/lodge
Source: http://www.calvarychapel.org.nz
Source of article: ephesians511blog.blogspot.com
Please read here from more on Roger Oakland: ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2012/01/roger-oakland-enigma-revealed-in-these.html“> Roger Oakland, an enigma revealed in these last days
Proof that Roger Oakland was contacted numerous times about Chuck Missler MONTHS before the article went live on the internet – ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2012/01/response-to-comments-on-galatians-4.html
Response to comments on Galatians 4 blog [Warning: If you decide to go to GalationsFour blog from ephesians511blog please use discernment when entering GalationsFour website, they are vehemently anti Pre-Trib which means they hold to the Roman Catholic Post-Trib.] ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2012/01/response-to-comments-on-galatians-4.html
UPDATED: A couple of years later Roger Oakland is STILL sharing a stage with Chuck Missler: Roger – A Fraud Perpetrated Upon Believers
NEW!! UPDATED: 5/12/2016 – Please read this SHOCKING news about William P Welty, Chuck Missler, Ron Matsen and a new book released in May 2016 about Mary the mother of God: William Welty and Koinonia House – the Adoration of Mary book.
What folks fail to realize, is that all these reports that Roger Oakland doesn’t “associate directly” with Missler misses the point…and in my opinion is a smokescreen.
The point being, because someone (Ron and Roger) has “said” that Roger is not “directly associated” with Missler, we’re to just believe that? Really? As if men caught in a transgression don’t lie? (I guess it might be considered OK, if was to “save” a “ministry.” That’s how that works, right?)
EVEN IF it were true that Roger doesn’t “directly associate” with Missler, it does not explain why Roger (self-proclaimed watchman on the wall) does not expose Chuck as complicit with Rome, and protect the flock of God (which would be his charge…correct?)…end or story. When I had emailed Roger myself, asking about this his reply was that he “wasn’t going to go there.” WOW!
And just because for Miguel, Roger is not an issue, does not mean Roger is not an issue. There has been no attack on Roger that I have seen here; merely a reporting of the facts and questions. Questions that Roger has yet to answer.
It appears to me that Miguel is speaking out of both sides of his mouth. Above he stated:
“I dont think the issue for me is Oakland as a whole as Missler is another story.
we do pray for roger as we are not to attack him personally I dont believe William is doing this.
I will be adding his articles to my website to address and expose missler..”
Implying that Roger is being attacked, but saying he doesn’t think William is doing that…WHAT????????????
As far as associations go, it doesn’t matter what “Ron” or anyone else says, the facts speak for themselves, as well as the unanswered questions, and the continued SILENCE of Roger Oakland and ALL the other “discernment” “ministries.” For a further help to this discussion regarding associations, check out info on this source…
BTW…I went to Miguel’s website, and he has not posted, as of yet, William Saunders’ article…the site indicate a KHouse/Chuck Missler expose’ is “coming soon.” It’s been over 6 weeks since Miguel’s above response, and over 6 months since this story broke. I hope he doesn’t plan on using the “discernment conference” material that will be presented in June in Michigan to “educate” the “sheep” about the errors of Chuck’s teaching. (I’ve read some of the information – exposure of his teaching is a good thing – but falls short of showing him complicit with Rome, and many of his other dubious associations. There needs to be reproving not only of the heresy being taught, but of the man himself!
That conference seems to be a bogus “controlled opposition” scenario. Check out the information about that on the May 27 through June 2 articles here:
http://ephesians511blog.blogspot.com
Carol…EXCELLENT CONCLUSION…WOULD THAT ALL GOD’S PEOPLE WOULD DO LIKEWISE!
I originally sent this in on February 2oth and it still states “awaiting moderation”. I figured it got stuck somehow –
Hi David,
Actually there is a place where I can be contacted and/or leave a comment.
Sometimes I don’t allow comments on certain articles, but the latest one is open.
As far as Walter Martin is concerned he is just as responsible for his actions as we are.
If Walter Martin went on to do what he did only to never get invited back, I can be OK with that. We can mistakenly do something like appear on TBN, never to return. I never heard Walter Martin renounce his appearance on TBN even though he might have.
However, that wasn’t the case with Chuck Missler or his other two “mentors”, Chuck Smith & Hal Lindsey. They enjoyed the appearances.
Maybe Walter Martin’s appearance on TBN gave Missler the idea it was OK to do so.
I have a video clip from January 11, 2011 when Mike MacIntosh (Horizon/Calvary Chapel), Raul Ries (Calvary Chapel), & Chuck Girard (Calvary Chapel) all appeared on TBN. In this broadcast I have the clip of, Mike MacIntosh reminded Paul Crouch Jr of when Chuck Smith & Paul Crouch Sr met in Chuck Smith’s office to “ink deals” with TBN 40 years earlier (~71′).
Chuck Missler, Chuck Smith, TBN go back a long way together.
Missler is no dummy, Missler knows exactly what he’s doing. TBN is a place where they can sell merchandise.
The TBN audience is the perfect audience to buy whatever is being sold (spiritually & monetarily), no discernment whatsoever.
This whole problem stems from “men lifting up men” which is an abomination.
Luke 16:15 (KJV) – “And He said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.”
If you notice in my article, I really didn’t go after Walter Martin.
– I provided the Walter Martin video clip to show Chuck Missler his “mentor” stated Sun Myung Moon denied the deity of Christ. If Walter Martin is truly Chuck Missler’s “mentor”, shouldn’t Chuck Missler be “receiving” spiritual “wisdom” & “discernment” from Walter Martin on the Sun Myung Moon/Tim LaHaye partnership? Wouldn’t the words from your “mentor” steer you away from Tim LaHaye? That didn’t happen did it? Instead, Chuck Missler & Tim LaHaye became partners.
– I provided the evidence that Tim LaHaye said to Moon “Your suffering will cleanse the sins of America” and Tim LaHaye taking money from Sun Myung Moon
– I provided the evidence that Chuck Missler asked Tim LaHaye in 2007 to be on Chuck Missler’s “Board of Regents” for the Koinonia Institute. On the Strategic Perspectives DVD I cite, Chuck Missler says to Tim LaHaye that they are “partners” in a very strong tone.
The question to Chuck Missler is this –
If your beloved “mentor” Walter Martin states that Sun Myung Moon denies the deity of Christ, Tim LaHaye states words to the effect that Sun Myung Moon is the Messiah by saying his “suffering will cleanse the sins of America”, Tim LaHaye takes money from Sun Myung Moon, WHY, CHUCK MISSLER are you becoming “PARTNERS” with Tim LaHaye?
If Chuck Missler is this alleged “great Biblical scholar”, where is ONE SHRED of “Biblical discernment”?????????
What Chuck Missler is doing is revealing he isn’t the guy everyone made him out to be AT ALL.
Chuck Missler is the “perfect delivery system” for any deception Satan wants to deliver to the church.
Our sinful nature loves to lift up men, that’s why the Lord told us not to do it.
Chuck Missler has the “perfect resume” for us sinful gullible sheep to lift up. We sinful gullible sheep love “credentials”, “IQ”, scholarship, or anything we can lift up in a worldly sense. We all do it to one degree or another.
Chuck Missler always reminds his audience of all his credentials, it’s a way to prepare us to believe whatever he is going to tell us. He, in his own self spiritually blinding pride (Obadiah 1:3), may not even realize what he is doing, but it works for Satan.
When we lift up men it’s a sin, when we sin we become spiritually blinded, when we become spiritually blinded we will lose discernment, when we lose discernment we are ready to receive deception.
The material he delivers could all be “ghostwritten”. He just delivers it.
Walter Martin should be the least of concerns on the latest article. I use the Walter Martin stuff to prove a point on another issue.
ephesians511blog@yahoo.com
God Bless
New Comment posted June 4, 2012 –
Welcome back Debs!!
I have done much posting since February 20th.
The latest post might be one of the most important because it shows Koinonia Institute using Martin Erdmann’s name as an instructor while he speaks out against Chuck Missler.
Martin Erdmann posted on his website that he is has NEVER been an instructor and has asked to have his name removed form the Koinonia Institute documentation.
SOMETHING VERY FISHY IS GOING ON.
http://ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2012/06/purposeful-deception-at-chuck-misslers.html
I am devastated by the information from so many. I have had close dealings with two men mentioned on here and am very sad.
I have had misgivings about Chuck Missler since reading the first 100 or so pages of The Kingdom, Power and Glory. I have found that trying to concentrate on Bible study while drifting off to his achievements, qualifications and cosmic and quantum theories, has been quite unnerving. Also while doing the Isaiah studies recently, it was really hard to follow the Bible as he used a Schofield King James (I am told) which is much different from my Cambridge King James.
Questions keep popping up in my mind about different people mentioned and I need to take it all to the Lord quietly.
I did today destroy all my Khouse bible study notes and CD’s/DVD’s and all stored MP3 downloads in my computer. If we are wrong, I still have my wonderfully perfect King James Bible. Thank You Lord!
jilliran
Let the Holy Spirit guide you as your read your bible and let HIM be your teacher and notice the joy you receive as you find out you didn’t need Missler and all his notes, cds and dvd’s. There is nothing like being taught the bible by the Holy Spirit, and when in doubt then go to mens teachings and let the Holy Spirit tell you what is right and what is wrong.
I agree with your note above, Debs, BUT respectfully disagree about the “when in doubt then go to mens teachings and let the Holy Spirit tell you what is right and what is wrong.”
When Jesus left this earth, He left His disciples with only 2 things to guide their faith and living…His Word and His Spirit. No commentaries, books, DVDs, conferences, etc. It is the words, written/spoken of men, for even discerning, Spirit-led Christians can be deceived…because the words of men sound so right…remember that error is clothed in much truth.
“And that from a chld thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Tim.3:15-17)
“And moreover, because the Preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
The Preacher sought to find out acceptable words; and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.
The words of the wise are goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.
And further by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
For God shall bring every work into judgment, and with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.” (Ecc. 12:9-14)
In addition, let us all be cautioned: with what are we filling the hearts and minds of our children/grandchildren?
A link to the above missionary to Kenya, Joetta Smith’s blog entitled “A Wake-Up Call” is a timely word.
http://www.faithoncedelivered.com/apps/blog/entries/show/12622592-wake-up-call
Thanx Debs, and a blessing on all GOD’s people!
And for all those in error, may they repent, for there is a good, and gracious God in heaven, and lo, the Redeemer, He liveth!…saying “Come”!
“And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say; Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
He which testifieth these things saith, ‘Surely I come quickly.’ Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. (Rev. 22:17-21)
Marion
Erm, then why are there teachers and preachers commissioned as per scripture? You are on my website and others ‘mens’ websites learning info as the Holy Spirit guides you, right? There are scriptures that even I do not understand, but other men, far far far more intelligent than I have learnt what they mean, and I will STUDY their findings to find myself approved – And with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, He will inform me if these studies are correct or not.
In reading my sentence you have ignored the fact that I place all guidance in learning on the Holy Spirit and not men. Of course you can’t just read anyone’s stuff, that is clearly obvious. According to your thinking you are not allowed to read anothers writings other than the bible, even if those writing are clearly biblical. So you need to turn off your pc now and stop reading others writings ;P including this comment. Theology is not as simple as just quoting verses here and there, many great men have gone before us (teachers and preachers) and have studied and supplied wonderful biblical books that will never replace the bible, but do help us understand scripture more ALWAYS with the GUIDANCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
Without the Holy Spirit one will never understand scripture, that means 1 verse or the whole scheme of things, it’s just impossible.
Truly, we do learn from one another…
There are things I learn on websites…but not doctrine, nor theology. The Scriptures and the Holy Spirit are sufficient. I do recognize your emphasis on the Holy Spirit’s guidance, who alone leads us into all truth.
Sometimes, I think because of the “fast food” world we live in, we don’t take the time to search out a matter in the Scriptures and wait upon God. There are some things I am seeking to understand presently. I am not reading the thoughts of other fallible men or jumping to my own understanding, but waiting on God and patiently searching it out. This takes time. Time we no longer will dedicate to searching out the deep things. Many want to just “know” and move on; knowledge puffeth up. I think this is dangerous and leaves us vulnerable; especially the babes. We are to “as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby.” (1 Pet. 2:2) That is for ALL of us, not just the newborn babes in Christ.
We must never forget that the Word of God is to have pre-eminence! (And no, I’m not implying that you have forgotten, because clearly, you haven’t) Believe me, I trust no man…only the Word of God! Heaven and earth will pass away, but His Word will never pass away! I have been terribly deceived in the past…strong walls fortify a city…God’s word is that strong wall of defense, protecting us from breach and collapse…I have learned the hard way! It was God who revealed to me how I got in such a mess to begin with. I merely pass on what I have learned.
There are many men teaching many things…even truth…only later, to be found out that they run in the wolf packs, their person and agenda suspect…and are actually leading folks unawares to the feet of other “teachers”. and strange teachings…as sheep to the slaughter! Funny, when sheep are being rounded up for slaughter – they have no clue, and offer no protest! I can share several personal such cases…we do not know men. But our boast and glory can be in God and His preserved and preserving word!
Example above…how many people are shocked by this news about Chuck Missler?…having said his teaching and doctrine had always been solid…but then… There are “hidden” things being done in secret by many. God’s word is our defense. I still think it better not to go there!
Isn’t it good, that we don’t have to agree on every point? We have each made points that are worth considering…and let each one who reads, before God…decide their course. I appreciate you greatly and the work you do here!
Marion, Debs is correct – God has raised up Bible teachers to exposit the Word. There are still some that can be trusted, but most of them have gone to their reward because so many today have become corrupted.
There is certainly nothing wrong with reading the Word and then referring to a trustworthy commentary because the Holy Spirit gives some the gift of teaching.
Good grief! The Body is supposed to minister to each other and the Holy Spirit didn’t impart gifts for us to not use them. The Bible tells us to stir up our gifts and not to neglect them because they are not given for the individual, but for the edification of the Church.
It is our place to discern whether a teacher is putting forth biblical truth or not. We never are to totally trust any person above God, but God does use other persons to edify us.
I’m gonna chime in with Marion here and second her remarks and assessments offered in her comment, two comments up, pertaining to Roger, and Missler, and Miquel Hayworth.
Six weeks Miguel? You’re gonna have a hard time convincing me that you’re a serious contender for the truth with that amount of timelapse.
And Marion makes the excellent point that it would be nothing for those whose hands have been caught in the cookie jar to deny the witnesses saw what they saw. Roger’s lack of “direct” association with Missler is simply a smokescreen, while he carries on behind the scenes with him. There are connections still, which remain unbroken.
Marion, I like the way you think. We could all take a lesson. Nobody’s gotta make anything up in order to arrive at the proper conclusion. There is definitely a coverup going on here. You have to will yourself dumb to miss it. The evidence is stinkin’ spilling over to the point of burying us! Time to wake up those critical thinking skills.
Additional notes: my comments were opinion/advice based on my own bad experiences with deception related to “christian” materials, and not knowing the hearts of men and from whence those come who desire to teach and lead. I certainly don’t expect that everyone will share my views and heed that advice; and that’s okay; perhaps it’s not for everyone. But for some, such a word of warning my save them from “wandering” as in the wilderness, regret and heartache. These days, I would rather err on the side of caution – even if it seems extreme.
Perhaps this will be better understood after I place a comment to the “Nancy Missler and Henrietta Mears” thread. See you there!
And Miguel, certainly you are not so naive… You said:
Ron Matson has confermed that both Roger and Ron has said that Roger has no association with Missler directly, but I believe that Roger does associate with K.House as its european person is supportive of Roger.
You’re gonna let Roger get away with that? That’s one of the oldest tricks in the book.
Look, if Roger has anything at all to do with anything related to Missler — especially one of Missler’s branches — I don’t care WHAT he says about his relationship to Missler; it’s a lie! These guys talk out of both sides of their mouth. It’s disingenuous — and a very old trick.
Don’t wanna be associated with someone? Don’t have anything to do with any aspect of their “ministry”.
It’s that simple.
Hey Debs,
Looks like we both have taken some time away from the internet world. Probably for very similar reasons, I would assume. I would like to email you privately as well.
I came across William Saunder’s blog today and my jaw hit the floor with his latest expose on Lighthouse Trails/Roger Oakland/Joetta Smith. As you know, I had previously (like a couple of years ago) left a message on here warning about heresy concerns with LHT and Roger Oakland. In fact, while you were understanding and equally concerned, i.e with Oakland’s scathing words about Christians who refrain from participating in the pagan celebration that is X-mas, some on here were a bit defensive and protective over Oakland, despite legitimate issues raised. “Perhaps it was his head injury…” Perhaps not. Perhaps some have been given over to a reprobate mind to do that which is inconvenient.
I had private email contact about a year ago with Joetta, Mama Jo, about my concerns with LHT and Roger Oakland. I was utterly dismissed. Now, to come across these articles just shows that the warnings were accurate.
As I’ve said before, this adoration of man has got to stop! Contrary to what a previous poster said, “There is certainly nothing wrong with reading the Word and then referring to a trustworthy commentary because the Holy Spirit gives some the gift of teaching,” Scripture has a different opinion:
1 John 2:27 “But the anointing which you have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him.”
It is this constant looking for man’s wisdom that has put so many, including Joetta Smith, and formally myself, in the terrible position of humiliation and pain caused by following a wolf, rather than the engrafted Word, which is able to save our souls. James 1:21
mom4truth
Got the email,thanks!
Mom4Truth, in the timeframe that the comments to which you refer were made, there was no reason to question LHT/UTT.
You falsely accuse those who did not immediately agree with you as valuing man over God. Personally I put my faith in NO MAN! I do RESPECT servants of the Lord and at the time it appeared that Roger Oakland was worthy of the benefit of the doubt. We are not to be quick to judge anyone.
But there was no question when things changed and it was shown that there was more to the picture than had previously been brought to light. This is how the discernment process works.
You were offended because Mama Jo didn’t receive what you had to say. She had every reason to trust LHT/UTT at that time to work with her to serve in Kenya. Yes, she has been hurt, but that is THEIR problem, not hers. Just because she trusted them does NOT mean that she trusted them more than she did God.
And your snide referral to the comment I made about using a good commentary was not helpful. Sister, God’s Word has not changed and He DOES raise up people with the gift of teaching. For clarification, I was referring to those who have gone before and have been PROVEN trustworthy to rightly divide the Word of God. I was NOT referring to anyone who is alive and breathing today because they must be constantly evaluated to see if they are speaking truth.
Of course not all those who passed are to be trusted. One must use discretion and discernment here also, but there are some whose expositional works are beneficial in conjunction with studying the Word and I can vouch that certain works have been a blessing to me. I don’t value any of these men over God and they would be horrified if I did. They were HUMBLE men of God who took their calling VERY seriously!
It is sad to see your blanket condemnation of anyone who might use a commentary as a tool to assist in Bible study. It does NOT replace or take away from the Word of God.
To deny this is to deny that God has gifted people with the gift of teaching! But he has also given the gift of discernment which sadly so few seem to use. You are right, it is man’s nature to trust man, someone we can see and hear tangibly. But this was not what I was advocating in any way shape or form!!
To mom4truth –
I have a follow-up article to the Lighthouse Trails/Roger Oakland article that should be coming out maybe as early as tomorrow.
Hi Guys,
You may be interested to see my new article called “Chuck Missler. His Vatican, Ecumenical Associations and Other Apostasies Exposed” on [removed]
Deborah, I have used your link to direct my readers to read this article of yours. I have also added some other interesting information which may interest you.
God bless
Regarding the conversation about whether we should listen to bible teachers, I sort of place myself in the middle somewhere between the thoughts of Marion, Deborah and Burning Lamp.
The problem with bible teachers is that they tend to press home their own personal interpretations or their own theological positions. For those who know their Bibles it is easier to sift through any baggage and recognise what parts are helpful and which parts are not. But for those who are “babes in Christ” it is more difficult for them.
In the natural a child goes through its informative years in which its thinking is conformed by external influences. The same happens with a babe in Christ. If that child is exposed to false teaching it will influence the way he/she reads/studies the Bible. Of course the Holy Spirit IS our teacher and will help us to recognise truth from error. The key is whether that child is truly born again or not. If born again having the Holy Spirit within, then surely the Holy Spirit will guide them as to whether teaching is true or false and will guide the child.
In reality, our spiritual journey takes a life time in which we face many perils including false teaching. We also (at times) fall into temptation and sin i.e walk in the flesh rather than the Spirit. It is during these times that we can become vulnerable to all sorts of things including willingly accepting false teaching.
Hebrews 5:12-14 is excellent in this discussion:
“For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
Specifically notice the last sentence. Those who spend much time in the Word give themselves a chance to grow and by applying the Word of God to their lives develop discernment.
The question should be HOW we are discipled. At the beginning I was encouraged to use study tools like Scripture Union helps and “every day with Jesus” etc. It was like drinking milk, but soon I got fed up with the milk and wanted to study the Bible directly. The “helps” were good in only one way. They helped me to learn how to ask the right questions when reading through the scriptures “what? how? who? when? which? where? why? etc and then how to use a concordance in comparing scripture with scripture. I wanted to learn from God direct rather than listen to the opinions/interpretations of others second hand.
In the early days of my Christian walk, it was quite difficult because much of what I was reading did not make sense to me because I wasn’t yet familiar with the teachings of the WHOLE bible. This is where ministry in the body is vital. Of course, many will give a false explanation. This is where the ministry of the Holy Spirit is even more vital. Sometimes the explanations will be spot on. The Holy Spirit will help you to recognise this PROVIDED you are a Berean and go back to the Scriptures to test it out, but by using your concordance to check scripture against scripture
Although I spent much time in the Word, as a babe, I tended to trust my teachers too highly, like a baby trusts its parents. It is only natural to do that. But, as I grew in my faith and in the knowledge of the Word, I started to see things which contradicted the teachings I was receiving. I kept on having to revise and re revise my theology by undoing much of what I was learning as/when scripture showed it to be in error.
In conclusion: teachers are good provided they stimulate you to study the scriptures properly for yourselves, but if they cause you to develop dependence on them then they become a problem.
I wrote an article on this which you may find helpful:
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To Marian and all
Sorry I have not responded sooner
To Marian I wish you had contacted me as you had given asumptions, 1, I am not in legue with Roger as he has stoped his contact with me on my investigation of Missler through Ron Matson,
2, I categorically stated that I fully intend to expose Missler the point being in the UK their is lots going on in terms of the ecumenical movement through More than Gold.
3, I will re-ashure people that Williams articles will be published on the first Plumbline site the problem is I am an idevidual and can only do so much (this is not an avasive excuse)
reaching4truth I believe Roger has loose connections to K.House because of Matson, Matson should be ejected from UTT untill he expresses strongly calling Missler to Repentace.
Regaurdless of what I think I simply posted what e-mails I had recieved, I do not thing this protects any excuses concerning missler.
The points that I will be covering on missler is along with a backlog of the following heretics also, the work on david wilkerson is almost finished I am working on Missler next so forgive me for not working at lightning speed.
William Suanders knows my sitiation as I have been in contact with him over skpe.
my issue with missler goes back to Saturday, 3 January 2009
This is one of the e-mails I had had shows 2 things Missler is an apostate and K. House is a buisness or Missler is Biblically Ignorant Please read below
Missler’s assistant said
“I had opportunity to discuss this at length with Chuck this afternoon. I
purposely did not prompt him but sought his perspective and decisions on
these issues. His response was “I would preach Christ and Him crucified at
the gates of Hell.” He actually brought up Paul also. He said to thank you
for your concern but the opportunity to minister outweighed the risk and
that he fully intends to speak whatever God wants him to say.
(my commnent) This is exactly what Ray Comfort said.
This tells me he has not really thought about if it is pleasing to God but to compromise, isnt this what solomon did in the Bible when God instructed him not to go after other gods, yet solomon compromosed, was involved in child sacrificies, burned incence to the gods of eygpt.
Yet Solomon did a little compromise here and their, some times we all need to be reminded not to make the same mistake, like Chuck is doing.
Stephen warns in acts 7:43.
“Yea, you took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which you made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.”
Acts 7:43
As you fully aware Wendy and Rory Alec has done nothing more then worship false gods, especially with Islam http://www.acctv.com.au/articledetail.asp?id=1281 thats the problem they go into the middle east and come back with the Quran, just like what Heretic and Apostate Robert Schullor Part 1 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Lkb2GOyoOB4&feature=channel_page Part 2 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ikQoTp7JPmE&feature=channel_page.
In a video Rory Alec promoted trasubstanciation that is deep rooted in babylonian Mystersism this should be enough to keep away and especially over their association with Todd Bentley, they have already made bad press, I would suggest that Chuck comes out or he will also have made a bad name for himself amongst the decernment minsitries out their they would not give it a second thought.
Missler’s assistant said,
“Your concerns won’t go for nothing. Because of your perspective, we will
take our participation much more seriously than usual.”
(my commnent) Why is it that I picked up on it, and I did not even know that Jackie had prior knowlege to this, surely if the Lord has shown this to two diffrent people, who have not been in communication with each other, then this needs to be taken into serious thought I came across it because (FYI Only) I had been informed that Todd Bentley is coming back and will be based in the UK with Rick Joyner.
Missler’s assistant said,
“This sounds like one of those events that you must be focused 24/7. If you know
Chuck at all, you know that doctrinally there is nothing you would disagree with.
If you must criticize us for our different perspective please be careful to not
contradict what you know about us. Division in the body can be a victory for
the enemy. Certainly there are doctrinal issues that should divide.”
(my commnent) Their are Doctrinal Issues with the Alec’s we should seperate ourselves from, Chuck is dissobeying what God says in Ephesians 5:11 why have fellowship with them, shake hands with the enimy and as far as to have a contract with them, this is like slapping God in the face and shuning his word even though Jakie warned Chuck, this gives me no doubt in my mind the direction that Chuck has gone with this is not to be taken to lightly, but with extream decernment and caution.
Missler’s assistant said,
“I don’t believe this is one of them. Pray for us that we may see things the way God
wants them to be seen. I trust you will do what God wants you to do also.”
(my commnent) The Scriptures also say
Matthew 24:24 “For false Christs and (A)false prophets will arise and will show great (B)signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even (C)the elect.
It is more than Just being careful, we should not even go their.
reaching4truth wrote:
The fact is: I havent, Roger will not speak to me further on this. I got sidelined.
The latest article on Joetta Smith (Mama Jo) was posted yesterday –
The Great Commission has two components:
1. Share the Gospel to reach the lost.
2. Disciple new believers.
Sadly, the grounding and mentoring of new believers in the faith is so often neglected, leaving them vulnerable to false teaching and wolves.
So many new believers are not even given the essential milk to help them develop properly and they never get to the meat. New believers need to be nurtured and cared for until they are grounded. We take more care with plants and animals than we do with tender new believers!
If the Word of God is not rightly divided, one can fall into false doctrine. The average person will not take it upon themselves to study Greek, Hebrew, context and search out the treasures of the Word. There are many verses that need to be explained or they are misinterpreted. This is where a TRUSTED commentary can be helpful as a tool.
The Word has been twisted like a pretzel, taken out of context and truth mixed with error so craftily that the potential to be confused is huge.
That could all be avoided if the discipling process was carried out properly as our Lord intended. But that takes time and committment and patience, virtues lacking in most quarters of the Church. More times than not people are given the salvation message and hope God does the rest. As a result we have a confused mess, a Church that is very wide and shallow.
How does this relate to the current topic? If people were taught the truth and how to discern these false teachers would not have the following they enjoy. But it is what it is.
Today even many (Deborah is an exception) who are called “watchers” don’t seem to care about sound doctrine. Many watchers are themselves confused even about the basic doctrines of the faith.
Some say that Christ only died for certain ones and that everyone’s eternal destiny is predetermined. Others have abandoned the Blessed Hope and are saying the Church will go through the Great Tribulation. Some don’t think eschatology is important and have the “pan” approach – it will all pan out. Others expose false teachers but put their readers back under the law, that they are in fear of losing their salvation. This is like the pot calling the kettle black!
Has the apostasy reached critical mass? I don’t see how it could get much worse – but then I’ve said that before…………….
Hi Burning Lamp
I agree with what you have said.
For me (when I was a babe in Christ) it was a good thing that no-one sought to disciple me nor show patience in answering my questions. It meant that I HAD to throw myself totally on the Lord alone. Being so zealous for the Lord meant that I was really keen to find the answers by intense bible study myself. Maybe, if I had been spoon fed it may not have helped me so much.
I believe a part of the discipleship process is to teach disciples how to feed themselves, how to spend time with God, how to witness etc.
BL,
You brought up the subject of the ‘Great Commission’; Matthew 28.18-19.
Pre-tribulation rapture teachers will tell us that much in Matthew’s Gospel (and in parts of Mark,Luke and John) is ‘ONLY for the Jews’ and ‘Not for the Church’.
(Rightly dividing?) —– [DTW note: No seriously! What nonsense is that? Where do you get that from? Why are you not letting the Holy Spirit be your guide instead of silly people telling silly stories?]
As a believer in the biblical post tribulation rapture, the bible clearly teaches that the Church and Israel (Gentiles and Jews) have the SAME destiny; Ephesians 2.14-16, read the whole chapter. —– [DTW NOTE: YES they have the same destiny, both Gentile and Jews when born again are both, new creatures, now CHILDREN OF GOD – but that does not stop God from turning his focus back to Israel during the Tribulation – They are HIS Chosen people, (Romans 11) He made a promise to them that he would not abandon them and He will not break that promise! – by the time of the tribulation, most of the Gentile world is attacking Israel as the Gentiles have RETURNED back to their pagan ways. Revelation 11:2; “But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months“.] and Luke 21:24; “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” < --> Romans 11:25 The Mystery of Israels Salvation – “25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.”
But, going back to the Great Commission, is this commandment for the believing Church, or unbelieving Jews? (Would they listen?).
The Great Commission is our blessed Lord’s commandment to the Church to preach the gospel to when? To the end of the age, or until seven years before the end of the age?(Pre-trib,secret rapture).Which will you teach the ‘new believer’? —– [DTW note: the gospel will be preached till the end of the age, that is why God SEALS 144,000 JEWS with power to do the preaching. Plus the 2 witnesses! Hardly anyone will survive the tribulation, only those who are commissioned by God are SEALED to do the job – Revelation 6:17 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand? If you think you are going to go through the tribulation and preach the gospel you have another surprise coming.“]
The Church was in existence before Pentecost, read Matthew 16.18 and 18.17. This was His little Jewish flock.
Our ‘Blessed hope'(Titus 2.13)will come for His Church after the tribulation (Matthew 24.29-31, which is the same coming as 1 Thessalonians 4.16 and 1 Corinthians 15.52, Revelation 11.15).
—– [DTW note: Luke21:36 Keep awake then and watch at all times [be discreet, attentive, and ready], praying that you may have the full strength and ability and be accounted worthy to escape all these things [taken together] that will take place, and to stand in the presence of the Son of Man.]
I have discussed at some length with you before on this most important of subjects. Can anything come close to the second advent? This will be the GREATEST crisis in human history!
—– [DTW note: You seem to want to discuss this Pre-trib thing, but you are doing in UNDER THE WRONG TOPIC!]
Holy cow Colin – you make even the Great Commission controversial and a springboard for your skewed view of eschatology. I realize I alluded to it in my comments but didn’t expect it to hijack this thread. Debs, maybe there is a need to address this again as I have noticed so many people look to as discerners are telling the confused sheep they will go through the GT.
BL
>> Debs, maybe there is a need to address this again as I have noticed so many people look to as discerners are telling the confused sheep they will go through the GT.
Yip it has crossed my mind… EVERYONE from the Pope to Colin believes in a Post-Trib Rapture and only a handful (like in the days of Noah) are looking for God to remove HIS faithful FROM HIS WRATH upon this earth.
As we say here in SA… “eish”
John, you are so right. One of the important aspects of discipling is to direct the new convert to the Lord and not to depend upon the one who is doing the discipling. There may be a need for a “weaning” process because that can happen.
When the Gospel has been presented and a new babe in Christ is born, they should be treated with as much care as any newborn. It is the responsible thing to do and our Lord commanded it for a reason!
But our Lord knows each situation. For instance many people receive the Lord through means other than the local church or an individual person where there is no one to disciple them.
In your case John praise the Lord He knew you would be one of the rare ones who would take the initiative to search out the scriptures.
In my own case I never had anyone to disciple me and never have had. It is a missing component that left me in ignorance for many years and took me down some strange paths and a lot of pain. But I am thankful that the Lord saved me and as He promised, has never forsaken me. Maybe because of what I missed it has caused me to realize the importance of it and the appalling lack of it.
There is a New Post on Ephesians 5:11 Blog on the Martin Erdmann/Chuck Missler saga.
Martin Erdmann spoke at the anti-Chuck Missler “Quantum Mysticism Conference” just 4 days ago even though Martin Erdmann is listed as a Koinonia Institute Instructor and just 4 days ago is listed as a Koinonia House New Zealand Conference Speaker.
Ephesians 5:11 Blog broke the original article in late May which forced Martin Erdmann to make a public statement on May 30th that he was NOT a Koinonia Institute Instructor even though Martin Erdmann had Koinonia House Inc. produce Erdmann’s DVD “More Than Human”.
Ephesians 5:11 Blog believes Missler/Erdmann are doing the “Hegelian Dialectic Illuminati Dance” –
Thesis (Missler) + Anti-thesis (Erdmann) = Synthesis (controlling both sides)
http://www.ephesians511blog.blogspot.com
[deleted by DTW – sorry Colin, I am not in the mood to discuss YOUR FALSE DOCTRINE. You have the audacity to claim I am preaching false doctrine by preaching that Jesus will return for His Bride before the trib, yet you are a CALVINIST (doctrine of demons) and you adhere to RCC post-trib eschatology. Buh! What a joke.]
Here is the First of my series of articles based on exposing Missler
For those who are interested.
This looks at Chuck Missler as a featured writer on Brannon Howse’s Worldview Times, Brannon Howse is an ecumeninist and as compromise as is Missler.
I will also be publishing Willaim’s archive on this section.
I have read the article posted by FirstPlumbline and wrote my own in response, it’s entitled, “Unsound Doctrine” and can be found at my site. Since I don’t link bomb for those who are interested you can google me.