At Boshoff from CRC Church shows us how Pharisees went about ‘Honoring’ God
The recent invitation to debate sent to Mr. At Boshoff by Dion Knoesen was as a result of the below notice sent out by CRC, to their members and undersigned by Mr. Boshoff.
This notice was dated 16 November 2010 with the Subject: “Honour God”
We wish to state the reason for the intended debate with Mr. Boshoff. We hope to either persuade Mr. Boshoff to give heed to proper rendering of the Scriptures for his own benefit and also to benefit those who are under his shepherding.
1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
On the CRC website it s mentioned that Mr. Boshoff studied at “A Bible College” for three years fulltime. Unfortunately no name is given to this Bible College.
In the last paragraph on this webpage the it says the following:
“He has been described as focussed, passionate and fervent in his hunger for the Word of God and explosive in his dynamic teaching of it. His positively dynamic and practical messages are equaled in their refreshing relevancy to their bold authenticity and doctrinal accuracy. “
When looking exegetically into his notice “Honour God” we have to question his “authenticity and doctrinal accuracy.”
For informative purposes the quoted Scriptures by Mr. Boshoff is discussed below in RED
As Paul wrote:
Php 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
Php 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
Email sent out from CRC Church to it’s congregation:
From: CRC Christian Church
Sent: 16 November 2010 01:00 PM
Honour God
“Money is the answer to all things.” Ecc 10:19
The two most important books in your life are the Bible and your cheque “book”. The Bible is the revelation of God’s love for us and our cheque book is the revelation of our love for God.
In Joshua 7 we read about the only place where Israel failed when they crossed into the Promised Land. The only place where Israel suffered defeat because they tampered with the gold and silver (the devoted things) that belonged to God.
Your tithe is Holy to God. Lev 27:30. There are two principles that dominate throughout the Old and New Testament: First fruits get given first and; seed time and harvest. It is God’s purpose that should drive us to give.
In Acts 5 we read about Ananias and Sapphira that financially stood in the way of God’s purpose and suffered great calamity. God does not curse you; your actions open your life to either failure or success.
Does Jesus endorse tithing? Of course He does. In both Matt 23:23 and Luke 11:42; Jesus says that tithing should be the most basic thing. When you tithe you shouldn’t even see that 10 percent. It’s God’s. Also we read in Heb 7 that tithing was before the law. It was a part of the Abrahamic covenant that still exists and is fulfilled in Jesus. He tithed to Malchizedek (high priest) 430 years before before Moses came with the law.
Your allegiance, your tithe, should be given to the church where you are planted. Mal 3 speaks about the coming of Jesus and actually the Holy Spirit. In this we see that we should bring the tithe to the “storehouse” which is your church. Give to God what is God’s. It is God who should be honoured first because He is the source of all your income. Matt 22:17-21
We work to build the kingdom of God, we shouldn’t work to meet our own needs. People can frustrate the work of God by withholding resources. Let’s evaluate ourselves and rectify places where maybe we’ve neglected to honour God with our finances. If you start today it is never too late.
This past week-end we saw 470 people giving their lives to Jesus. We are here to possess the Promised Land. Thank you to every one of you for working hard throughout the year and inviting your world to CRC.
We had a fantastic harvest event in Cape Town last week. We saw the entire auditorium filled to the max. Ps. Aidan and Sharon are doing a great work in that city. I believe many good things are still heading our way in Cape Town.
They have begun to lay the foundations for the Pretoria Building Project. We are so excited to see how things come together as we follow the instructions of God. As we are now in the time when we have to pay the contractors large sums of money every month, I urge you to give the money you pledged or whatever extra the Holy Spirit lays on your heart.
If you still want to contribute please e-mail finance[at]crc.org.za
The Kids’ Party is only a week away. Please take part in this as we are going to make the day special for over 15 000 underprivileged children. If you would like to volunteer or make a donation please contact 051-xxx xxxx.
Be Blessed,
At Boshoff
A Critique on how to “Honor God” written by At Boshoff – Critique notes in red
“Money is the answer to all things.” Ecc 10:19 (Undersigned by At Boshoff)
[Note: It is utterly disappointing to notice that Eccl. 10:19 is cited and interpreted in the way At Boshoff has done so in his notice to the congregation at CRC.
When reading what King Solomon wrote in the book of Ecclesiastes the basic understanding and proper rendering of the Scripture quoted is in fact quite the opposite, as indicated here by Mr. Boshoff.
The passage in context from the first verse (In fact the first chapter of Ecclesiastes) has to do with what the foolish do and the evils resulting from their actions in this world, which also includes verse 10.
Solomon’s message is one of vanity to all that are under the sun, which includes “Money is the answer to all things” What Solomon actually means in writing this is that man’s trust in money which according to man answers all things, is vanity. Their trust and security should be in God and not in money.
It is vanity of fools who rely on their money for all things instead of God.
Psa 62:8 Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. Selah.
Psa 62:9 Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.
Psa 62:10 Trust not in oppression, and become not vain in robbery: if riches increase, set not your heart upon them.
Psa 62:11 God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto God.
Mar 10:24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1Ti 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life
Why do so many pastors not put their faith in God but rather exploit the people, after all they are always accusing those who do not have money as being without faith – yet when they need the money they rely on the people instead of their faith??
The Bible does not teach that money should not be used to preach the Gospel and to support brethren (not organisations) in the body of Christ – it is very obvious that mammon should be befriended for this purpose.
But to contort Scripture in this manner shows doctrinal ignorance – hopefully – that rather done so on purpose.]
The two most important books in your life are the Bible and your cheque “book”. The Bible is the revelation of God’s love for us and our cheque book is the revelation of our love for God. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)
[Note: Where is this revelation in the Bible, that our cheque book is the revelation of our love for God??
The revelation I find is that our love for the Lord Jesus, is to keep His commandments not the love of filthy lucre. Our love is manifested in our obedience to Him, our trust in Him alone not in mammon and riches.
There are only two important books and that is the Bible and having your name written in the Book of Life.]
In Joshua 7 we read about the only place where Israel failed when they crossed into the Promised Land. The only place where Israel suffered defeat because they tampered with the gold and silver (the devoted things) that belonged to God. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)
[Note: Ouch!!! First of all it was not Israel who “tampered with the gold and silver” but one man named Achan the son of Camri who had stolen some of the spoils of looted booty of Jericho. (This also had nothing to do with his own money, silver or gold or any of his personal belongings which is referred to here Mr. Boshoff in quoting Joshua 7 for gaining money from New Testament congregants.)
Yes, Israel as a corporate entity was punished as result of the theft by Achan, but it had absolutely nothing to do with the personal wealth individuals were given by God, which were then somehow to the interpretation of this part of Scripture withheld from God.
Firstly this was in disobedience to God, because God placed a ban on personal gain from the looted goods.
Secondly theft was the cause of the punishment – taking things not given to you by God.
Thirdly it was the covetousness of Achan that was addressed in the punishment. Covetousness is what God warns us against throughout the Scriptures.
A reminder: The Bible does not teach that money should not be used to preach the Gospel and to support brethren (not organisations) in the body of Christ – it is very obvious that mammon should be befriended for this purpose.
But to contort Scripture in this manner shows doctrinal ignorance – hopefully – that rather done so on purpose.
To be under the shepherding of someone who does not understand context and doctrine or does understand context and twists it out of context, is not promoted by Scripture:
1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.]
Your tithe is Holy to God. Lev 27:30. There are two principles that dominate throughout the Old and New Testament: First fruits get given first and; seed time and harvest. It is God’s purpose that should drive us to give. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)
[Note: Some more doctrines lacking regarding the tithe very applicable to the Old Testament. Using this one verse for the purpose of tithing is not sufficient and there were many tithing’s applicable not just one. To understand this tithe there were basically 4 types of tithing in the Old Testament ONLY
a) The tithe to the Levites. Deut.14: 27.
The Levites were the “government” of Israel and due to them not having a share in the land allocated to the rest of the tribes, those allocated land were to use of their produce to give to the Levites.
b) The tithe of the Levites to the Zadokites. Neh.10: 38.
Now this is where Malachi is used to place unnecessary burdens on believers today.
First of all, tithings were purely laws given in the Torah or Old Testament. So commanding and condemning people to tithe today by quoting Malachi 10, is basically going back to the Torah or the Law, putting congregants back under the law.
Secondly the Scriptures used below to state that Jesus endorses tithing are totally out of context with regard to tithing and God’s Word in fact it refers to this as works by the Pharisees to justify themselves, something God loathes. In Fact God says woe to them that tithe! – will explain when we discuss these passages.
Thirdly when Malachi 3:10 is read and understood in context it refers to the tithe in a) above, the tithe in Deut 14:27 which was received from the tribes and given to the Levites. The Levites in turn were to skim off a tithe from this tithe (Neh10:38) to give to the priests attending to temple duties. So it was the Levites who were robbing God not the people.
It is interesting when reading the “Works Of Josephus” the Sadducees were the rich of the day who were using the tithes to enrich themselves. Josephus admits to this as he himself was a Sadducee.
Historically it is proven that the Sadducees were extremely rich due to the financial contributions by ordinary people who were forced to pay tribute.
There is no new thing under the son. Today’s Sadducees and Pharisees apply the same rule. The flock enriches them as result of their own rendering and contortions of Scripture.
The clergy were robbing God of tithes not the people, hence the rebuke to them in Malachi 10.
Have any of the Malachi 10 promoters ever read the following to any of their congregations?
Mic 3:10 They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity.
Mic 3:11 The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us.
Mic 3:12 Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.
The third type of tithe:
c) The tithe toward the annual Holy Days. Deut. 14: 22 – 26.
3 Times a year the Israelites were to attend Holy Feasts at Jerusalem and for this they needed to set aside a tithe of their harvests etc. If they were too far from Jerusalem they could sell the targeted tithed articles and turn it into money. This they would spend upon themselves and the Levites once they arrive in Jerusalem.
d) The tithe to the less fortunate. Deut.14: 28 – 29.
This is also a tithe to obviously assist the needy in the Old Testament.
Although a tithe in the New Testament is never mentioned in this regard there are many Scriptures which clearly say that the needy ought to be cared for.
When one searches for the word “Tithe” in the New Testament there are two references one in Matt. 23:23 and the other in Luke 11:42 which notably is quoted by Mr. Boshoff and will be discussed.]
In Acts 5 we read about Ananias and Sapphira that financially stood in the way of God’s purpose and suffered great calamity. God does not curse you; your actions open your life to either failure or success. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)
[Note: Who is man that he is able to stand in the way of God’s purpose? Is God dependant on man?
Psa 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
It is agreeable that one’s actions open you to success or failure, but to use Acts 5 as yardstick for failure and success is totally out of context.
I know of many people struggling financially who humbly adores God and has extreme credence in the Lord Jesus, but who realize that their own actions caused their calamity. Those being poor and suffering financially in this life without rejecting the Lord Jesus who are willing to endure to the end will be first in the Kingdom.
Although there are certain quotations by the MHCC I do not fully agree with the MHCC renders the following understanding with regard to Ananias and Sapphira which I could not have worded better:
The sin of Ananias and Sapphira was, that they were ambitious of being thought eminent disciples, when they were not true disciples. Hypocrites may deny themselves, may forego their worldly advantage in one instance, with a prospect of finding their account in something else. They were covetous of the wealth of the world, and distrustful of God and his providence. They thought they might serve both God and mammon. They thought to deceive the apostles. The Spirit of God in Peter discerned the principle of unbelief reigning in the heart of Ananias. But whatever Satan might suggest, he could not have filled the heart of Ananias with this wickedness had he not been consenting. The falsehood was an attempt to deceive the Spirit of truth, who so manifestly spoke and acted by the apostles. The crime of Ananias was not his retaining part of the price of the land; he might have kept it all, had he pleased; but his endeavouring to impose upon the apostles with an awful lie, from a desire to make a vain show, joined with covetousness. But if we think to put a cheat upon God, we shall put a fatal cheat upon our own souls. How sad to see those relations who should quicken one another to that which is good, hardening one another in that which is evil! And this punishment was in reality mercy to vast numbers. It would cause strict self-examination, prayer, and dread of hypocrisy, covetousness, and vain-glory, and it should still do so. It would prevent the increase of false professors. Let us learn hence how hateful falsehood is to the God of truth, and not only shun a direct lie, but all advantages from the use of doubtful expressions, and double meaning in our speech.]
Does Jesus endorse tithing? Of course He does. In both Matt 23:23 and Luke 11:42; Jesus says that tithing should be the most basic thing. When you tithe you shouldn’t even see that 10 percent. It’s God’s. Also we read in Heb 7 that tithing was before the law. It was a part of the Abrahamic covenant that still exists and is fulfilled in Jesus. He tithed to Malchizedek (high priest) 430 years before before Moses came with the law. (Undersigned by At Boshoff)
[Note: Is Mr. Boshoff rightfully dividing the Word here?
To understand Matthew 23:23 effectively one needs to read from verse 1!
These were the Words of the Lord Jesus Himself. The Lord Jesus was warning against the Pharisees and rebuked them for putting credence or weight to their tithes. The Lord Jesus says in Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
The Lord Jesus most certainly does not say that tithing is the most basic thing in this Scripture. In fact He says woe to those that tithe and ignore the important things that God wants. The Lord Jesus in fact says that it is NOT the most basic thing. He says the “weightier” matters are more basic than the tithe.
Luke 11:42 Again out of context and basically the same rebuke goes out to the Pharisees who promoted and relied on tithing as the basic thing at the time of the Temple in Jerusalem.
I do not find: “Jesus says that tithing should be the most basic thing” What I do find is another rebuke to the Pharisees and Scribes who felt very secure in basic tithing: Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! For ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
What I have found in CRC when I used to go there was that they were promoting security in tithing, but the more important and weightier matters such as keeping the Lords commandments in our love for Him, I personally never heard in any sermon by Mr. Boshoff.
Is this not precisely why the Lord Jesus in His Word rebukes the Pharisees?
In Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42 the focus is more on the “weightier” matters than the tithe.
A very repetitive part of Scripture used by Mr. Boshoff is Hebrews 7
Gen: 14:18: And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the highest God.
Gen: 14:19: And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
Gen: 14:20: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
This is to “prove” that tithing was established before the time of Moses, the Torah or law and that tithes have to be given to the priest. To find out what the Melchizedek tithe meant one has to not only read this passage, but also read on to verses 22 & 23.
From verse 18 – 20 it is clear that this was not Abraham’s belongings which were tithed, but rather the booty or loot he had gathered from conquering the enemy.
Gen:14:22: And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,
Gen: 14:23: That I will not take from a thread even to a shoe latchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:
Although he gave away 10% of the booty, he stated that he did not even want any of it, because it was not his.
It is also interesting to note that this was a ONCE OFF event, which never took place again.
Ninety percent and more of Scripture quoted for the purposes of pleading for tithes are taken out of context today. God says let few be teachers, because those teachers teaching the flock will be held accountable for what they teach.
A reminder: The Bible does not teach that money should not be used to preach the Gospel and to support brethren (not organisations) in the body of Christ – it is very obvious that mammon should be befriended for this purpose.
But to contort Scripture in this manner shows doctrinal ignorance – hopefully – that rather done so on purpose.
James:3:1: My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.]
Your allegiance, your tithe, should be given to the church where you are planted. Mal 3 speaks about the coming of Jesus and actually the Holy Spirit. In this we see that we should bring the tithe to the “storehouse” which is your church. Give to God what is God’s. It is God who should be honoured first because He is the source of all your income. Matt 22:17-21 (Undersigned by At Boshoff)
[Note: Reading Mal 10 from verse 1 rather suggests that the audience addressed by God were the priests as already discussed. The “storehouse” is definitely not the New Testament church. The New Testament church is the bride of Christ and not a building built with brick and mortar.]
We work to build the kingdom of God, we shouldn’t work to meet our own needs. People can frustrate the work of God by withholding resources. Let’s evaluate ourselves and rectify places where maybe we’ve neglected to honour God with our finances. If you start today it is never too late.
[Note: The Lord Jesus calls for heed to doctrine rather than finances and I do hope that Mr. Boshoff would rather be obedient to the Lord in the weightier matters.]
This past week-end we saw 470 people giving their lives to Jesus. We are here to possess the Promised Land. Thank you to every one of you for working hard throughout the year and inviting your world to CRC.
[Note: Figures do not impress God. One such an example is: Exo 23:2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment:
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
The quote Mr. Boshoff uses in Matthew 23 was discussed already and to conclude, using this verse as a basis for endorsing tithing is basically in support of what the Pharisees promoted – That Mr. Boshoff is teaching here and to the congregation is absolutely the same what the Pharisees were doing.
What is important however and of grave concern, are the proselytes made by CRC. This is also found in Matthew 23 the chapter in which the verse occurs that Mr. Boshoff uses to preach the diametric opposite to what the Lord Jesus says in this chapter: Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?]
We had a fantastic harvest event in Cape Town last week. We saw the entire auditorium filled to the max. Ps. Aidan and Sharon are doing a great work in that city. I believe many good things are still heading our way in Cape Town.
[Note: I suppose it is not worth mentioning all those pastors and lay persons who have left CRC and would like to see Mr. Boshoff repent of his ways.]
They have begun to lay the foundations for the Pretoria Building Project. We are so excited to see how things come together as we follow the instructions of God. As we are now in the time when we have to pay the contractors large sums of money every month, I urge you to give the money you pledged or whatever extra the Holy Spirit lays on your heart.
If you still want to contribute please e-mail finance@crc.org.za
The Kids’ Party is only a week away. Please take part in this as we are going
to make the day special for over 15 000 underprivileged children. If you would like to volunteer or make a donation please contact 051-525 2883.
[Note: It is agreeable that feeding under privileged Children is a very good work, yet the concern remains what these poor children are being fed spiritually when such doctrine as discussed here is being preached.
Hitler once said that if the hearts of the children are won, the next generation will be won.
It is also fact the “Church” of Rome has built a multitude of schools and hospitals and proclaims ex-Cathedra that winning the minds of children before age 7 will ensure that they will be won permanently for the Mother “Church”. I see the same happening at CRC so feeding children is an outward appearance coaxing them into a greater deception of being taught wrong doctrine
Remember what James wrote; if the correct faith is dead the works mean nothing.
It is the correct doctrine that will ensure the correct faith – this is why the works may be more detrimental to the children in the longer term.]
Dean
Please put your “boldness” where your mouth is into practice. Come and do the debate in public and on camera -you and At Boshoff and any of CRC’s senior or Rhema’s senior pastors.
If you however come alone please consider bringing someone of senior authority with you as you are clearly ignorant and we will need someone with a little more – so perceived by yourself- with clout to effectively do the debate.
It is easy to sit and comment but to contend for the faith like Paul did and we are willing to do is not for the faint hearted like yourself – come on the invitation is here!
Please forward this invitation to them as we had already done so and have heard not squeak accept from the mice on this blog who are also too weak to step out and debate.
As your comments reflect – nothing said and nothing done……………??????
You my friend need to take a good look in the mirror.
Do you fail to notice that u started this ridiculous blog in 2010? nearly two yrs later ur sitting behind the pc still demanding ur debate?
i hope u wont be here in another two years or 20yrs! at least i wont, as this is my last reply. about ur invitation,
1) i live in the middle east (or did u ignorantly forget? coz u too wrapped up in the affairs of ur emotions?), i certainly wont be waisting money, time, effort on ur baseless claims
2) even if i was in SA, id be doing just what AT and the rest of CRC is doing… ignoring u and keep building the kingdom.
After all of this u still “ignorantly” assume i am connected to crc? either u cannot read or ur just too wrapped in ur purposeless affairs. snap out of it and go and do something, the church doesn’t need u to go and investigate every body and seek the “false prophets”.
We were given the Holy Spirit for that and the gift of discernment. I suggest you allow God to tell the believers where they should and should not be. when did it become your job? get over ur offenses, stop dividing the church.
u have 1 of two choices (1- write back about all ur garbage of debating and criticizing everybody like u been doing from the word go, and then do this for the next 20yrs OR
2- Get over ur offenses like the rest of those who were offended by crc, including myself, bless the church (ur personal enemy, as Christ demands of us from scripture), and move on with ur life. all the best, bye.
Dean
Actually this blog has been around for a longgggggg time just under different hosting providers and different names and plans to be around until Jesus comes back to fetch His Bride 🙂
>> After all of this u still “ignorantly” assume i am connected to crc?
Well you speak about it like you were AT’s bestest friend and if you were to meet him again he would throw his arms around you and hug you like in Spartacus did his friend in the move Spartacus lol.
>> We were given the Holy Spirit for that and the gift of discernment.
Yes we are, but some people have a false spirit and can’t tell the wood from the trees. Also Christians are to encourage, teach, exhort, rebuke one another through the Word of God.
Jesus exposed false teachers, the disciples exposed false teachers and we do the same today. Anyone who does not want false teachers exposed must be questioned, like yourself as to why you want the wolf to get away with murder.
We are not offended by At or the CRChurch, we are offended by the FALSE TEACHINGS they preach because they mock and insult JESUS CHRIST and His children of God, and these false teachings enslave people and send people straight to hell.
We do not believe in Kingdom Now theology Deon, YES we preach the gospel that people will be saved and also come out of cults like CRC, but we believe in a Millennial reign with Jesus Christ, not a Kingdom now to be built by Christians (which is unbiblical).
Hi Debs,
Ditto – a clear lack of knowledge on Dean’s side. I will not be going further with this – no theological sence in this person and absolutely no discernment whatsoever.
Blessings there to you Debs.
Hello. Who are you people? I went to At Boshoff’s CRC in Welkom on Wednesday (2nd time, 1st time was almost a year ago and he then did the money thing) Personally I didn’t feel closer to my God or felt anyting actually. I even took 2 people with because they are my friends and it was a harvesting event. They felt the same. Problem is, I was invited there by friends and they like the place. We have had strong dissagreements about CRC the past 2 days and I said I will follow up on it. So then I found you guys here. I know AB is zealous and driven but have suspissions about what drives him (like you I am pretty sure it is the Rands). I know I do not feel what I am supposed to in CRC but the service is twisty and fast and the music is disruptive actually. Praise was difficult under mega singers, massive sound and overbearing drums. I need to get my friends out of there quick but need to know more about AB. Does he own other bussinesses, properties? Does he use politics to further the church, his (AB’s)ambitions?
I haven’t read all of your blog yet, time issue today, but will tomorrow. Again – how do I get my friends out of there. They are good people and know the bible well but perhaps a bit gullable.
This is for Deborah (don’t have your e-mail)
WOW. Okay I now read all of it. I really would like to contribute to the discussions and I am very very happy with the full way in which the gospel is interpreted. I do not want to attack anyone. I know oom At is wrong, he knows he is wrong (anyone with that much money from spreading the Gospel and knowing the Gospel knows he is wrong). I liked “DUDE”s comments, although it is futile to try and link it to the bible but social engineering (mass manipulation) is how sects operate – and politics and the entire marketing industry. I think “DUDE” did you a favour by showing people how they work and that it is not based on scripture and they are playing them. That is where the Devil is strong, in marketing because he just keeps hammering on what we see around us, on what we know. If God had to advertise heaven people would join churches for the bennifits and not because of His love, so He doesn’t market it, plus He Won already.
Can I please just say that I think you are doing something great and brave but please do not get involved in silly battles that pulls you away from the war. The Holy Spirit will finish what he lead us to start, we must not stop being lead by him. He doesn’t only have one person all the time. I am bubbling with excitement so this communication isn’t structured too well, but I had to say that. And another thing: THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. Please reply soonest and I pray that we all move closer to God’s truth amidst all these inaccuracies and blatant lies. The lies started small but over centuries they ammassed to where they are now, so they are deeply entrenched.
Andre
I am not sure if I was supposed to post your comment… oh well 🙂 THANK YOU!!! And you are so right about being bogged down in silly battles, it’s something I am working on preventing 😉 There are lots of things I have come to realise over the long run of this blog, and one is to cut short those who are only in it to argue. The truth is the truth, end of story. Then there are the few that need genuine Christian love and some good truth preached to them.
Yes, ‘Dude’ did me a favour all right, there are lots of people who do me lots of favours on this blog by commenting and in doing so help me expose their own false teaching. That’s the only reason why I allow the comments section. The ‘followers’ help me expose their false teachers by explaining in their own words the nonsense they believe. So when ‘seeking’ Christians come alone, guided by the Holy Spirit, Christians who are being called by God to come out of this evil Babylonian (Vatican)’Christianity’ they will read these things, ‘get the fright of their lives’ and realise what they have been following all along and remove themselves from ‘HER’ Rev 18:4 “Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues.” (Gen 19:12; Isa 48:20; Isa 52:11; Jer 51:6; Jer 51:45; 2Cor 6:17)
So thank you for your comment, Andre. I am excited that you are excited!!
No worries Deborah. The more time I have to think the more I realise this guy is devouring people’s time with God and pulling them away from reason. The bible can be complicated if you make it so but he is happy with people doing that, because then they listen to his simple explaination. He focusses on the words and not the message. Enough about him. THere is no reward for exposing him but God will be happy if we get people away from there. Praying is the start. The battle is with the spirits, not the people. Please give me your e-mail. By the way, I am not a stand up citizen and have my faults and I don’t try to hide them, so if anyone wants to point fingers, go ahead, I know I am human. I love my God, He is bigger than we can ever explain or immagine, I love my neighbour as much as I love myself(well I try very hard). I had a dream years ago where Jesus came to earth on a big white horse. He rode it straight THROUGH the moon when it got in the way and it broke up like dirt. That was awesome. He was not angry either 🙂
Will talk again
Use all the armour
Andre
Andre wrote:
I do not want to attack anyone. I know oom At is wrong, he knows he is wrong (anyone with that much money from spreading the Gospel and knowing the Gospel knows he is wrong).
Oh, you just touched on the very things that have been on my mind lately. 1. Those are the false teachers: the ones who know they are wrong. Sometimes, it is clear who they are. Sometimes not. Oh, and the money thing. I listened to the beginning of the Joyce Meyer audio clip yesterday – up to the point where the presenter spoke about her multi-million dollar ministry. Then my hair just rose. Have we forgotten how the early church operated?
Oh yes. Words create reality – if you see/hear something often enough, you might just start believing it. There’s an Afrikaans word for it which is quite descriptive: “afstomping”. Not sure what it would be in English: numbing?
Andre
>> Here is no reward for exposing him but God will be happy if we get people away from there.
You hit the nail on the head there Andre. I take no joy in exposing false teachers, but I take tremendous joy when people are set free from doctrines that have kept them captive because of the work God has called me to do. I do not hate or even dislike anyone, but I do immensely hate the words that come out of these peoples mouths that lead people straight to hell. These are soul matters, people’s lives hang in the balance, and this is why I will continue to fight the good fight (against principalities of evil) because 1) I love Jesus Christ more than anything and 2) I love my neighbour as much as I love myself (well I also try very hard lol), therefor I preach the gospel that SAVES to them.
AMEN AMEN AMEN Let it be just so. Hope that your blessings are multiplied.
Reply to Hanelie
Yes Afstomping is reg. But in general and this age I think people want to be fed where it comes to the bible too, so in stead of reading the bible they prefer SOMEONE read it too them and that the same SOMEONE should explain it. We need to pray more too. Many people pray out of earthly need and some out of want but we need to pray for insight, for ourselves and the members of those churches. If He is for us, who can be against us?
Use all the armour
Andre wrote:
Oh, absolutely. I was there too. I am only now, day by day, realising how many lies I accepted as “truth” (and how that had impacted my growth and walk with Christ) because I delegated my responsibility for Christian growth to others.
Hi Deborah (can I call you Debs too, much shorter. I will go by And if you want)
You know I just deleted a long discription of what I saw in CRC today. It made me sound like someone who finds fault with everything. All I know is that receiving the Holy Spirit is a tremendous turning point in your life and it is joyous and filled with emotions hard to keep in. At the very least the most composed person will have a very big smile on his face. You just received the HOLY SPIRIT. People got called forward today to have the Holy Spirit prayed to them, they fainted in a peculiar way, got laid down gently, got covered with a blanket (so what, some may say) but then they stood up groggy and returned to their seats less … , well just less than the way they walked to the front. No joy. Plus everyone else went on with bussiness as usual, asif the Holy Spirit is received so many times that it is less notable than the coffee served after the sermon (and there was no coffee!)
Ag nee man mense. You are more excited when telling people about how many people received the Holy Spirit than actually receiving Him.
This is my personal opinion which I write by choice. I do not aim to offend or to tempt. If it works for the folks in CRC then it works for them but don’t let the numbers of the place fool you. For those people who found God in CRC, don’t think I am saying it is not possible because it is written that where two or more are gathered in His name, there He is also. All the evil and the lies and bad guys in the world will last only milli seconds against the Almighty God. So please be careful that you honor and exalt GOD and not CRC. Your choice.
Talking to my friends tomorrow.
By the way (to anyone who thinks I am nuts)
I hate accusing people and get no joy from it, so take your own time and just read about the unholy spirit, Kundalini or something like that. it is on this blog somewhere.
Here is it: The Biblical Holy Spirit vs.The False Unholy Spirit of Fire
i just came across this site and was intrigued when i saw crc’s name.
i was a member and leader in crc for 10 years.i was still an innocent student in bloemfontein and didnt really know better.as i grew up and grew closer to God,i started to dissagree more with the vision At has for the church.one night i was sitting in one of the leaders meetings and at was talking about money..and he asked,do we all know where all of our tithes go to..and his answer was as he was pointing to the newly builed stage..our tithes went into building a new stage for the church so that it would look good on tv.i was feeling both mad and upset..because i tithe to build into the Kingdom of God and NOT to build a new stage!!!there were a few nights i couldnt sleep and i thought i was under satans attack!i felt like i was being wrong not agreeing with the vision..meanwhile it was the Holy Spirit opening my eyes and He was busy pulling me away from the deceiption.there was also an incedant where i needed some spiritual guidance.i was under spiritual attack and i just wanted someone to pray with me.so i made an appointment with uncle sid,at’s dad in law.it was an hour appointment and for 5 minutes we talked about what i was experiencing and for the rest of the hour he told me to loose more weight because i am one of the pretties woman in church but i am just carring arroud too much weight.for crc are all about woman must look like a supermodel.
well,i thank God that He opened my heart and eyes to the truth.
I always had a passion for america and i always knew i wanted to go to america.since i was a teenager i told my friends that i am going to marry to an american man.and after being single and waiting on God for 7 years i met my american husband,and am now living in california.
we are part of a calvary chapel church.and i have read some stuff about chuck smith on this site.but i must say,i have learned more about Jesus and His grace in this 9 months ive been here now than what i have ever learned in crc..oh and i was a leader at doxa deo also for 3 years.
for the first time i am learning the Word and not some crap a pastor teaches to please his congregation.
our calvary chapel pastor said the other day,as long as he is the shephard of this church,Jesus will be the centre and focus point.no weird teaching will be taught,no weird books or strange things like laughing in the spirit and falling over.
it feels like i finally found what i was looking for spiritually my whole life!i learn..i get taught so that i can teach..as the bible says,freely you recieve and freely you give.
as far as crc and doxa deo are concerned..i just let them be.i still have alot of hurt,but i needed to forgive so that i can be free.
i think about that passage in the bible where the disciples went to Jesus saying oh look at those people casting demons out in Jesus’s Name but they werent really for Jesus the just used His Name for their own gain. and Jesus just said..let them be.
you know,He knows everything.and for us who know Him and the truth..let us freely give what we have recieved!i thank God that we all have been set free from the deceiption. God has bigger and better plans for us!
Mariana
Thank you for your story.
I just have one question for you. You as a born again child of God have the Holy Spirit abiding in you, and the Bible says of the Holy Spirit..
John 14:26 “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
Why are you solely relying on another man, this pastor, (who says he is preaching the truth, when is could very well be not – just saying) when you could be opening your bible at home, and reading the bible, studying the bible with the best teacher EVER – the Holy Spirit given to you by God?
The bible says 2Tim 2:15 “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
If you are being led astray by men’s teachings, it’s because you like being spoon fed by the pastor instead of rightly dividing the Word of God yourself with the guidance of the Holy Spirit – that is what He is there for.
Do you take the pastors sermon and go and check/study the bible to see if what he preached is actually the truth? – and this can only be done if you have an intimate knowledge of God’s Word to start of with. Otherwise you will be back to square one, lapping up everything the pastor says because well he said he is OK, so therefore you must believe him. Just because people are not falling over and laughing in his church, does not necessarily mean he is preaching the truth and nothing but the truth.
Think about it, what is really lacking in your life Mariana? The Holy Spirit is awakening you, He wants you to spend time with Him studying God’s Word learning the fundamental truths of God’s Words so that when you see false teaching being spoken you can spot it quickly.
^^To Deborah: Amen. God keeps reminding me of that, and it is the desire of my heart to know His Word intimately. Also to know Him intimately. But, am I the only one sometimes finding the Bible really difficult to understand? Some days it just breaks open. Some days not. I wish I understood more of the things I read here (language, context etc.). I read recently that text without context is pretext (for someone else’s pet doctrine). Don’t I know that: I feel as if I was brought up on a doctrine of single verses. Sometimes it helps if someone can fill in some of those blanks. And, then there’s the issue of different translations. I read Luke 9:55-56 in about 7 different translations last night, because it differed so much from one to the other. Who to trust? As I said earlier: the Lord keeps reminding me that I can only trust the Holy Spirit in me.
Hanelie
>> But, am I the only one sometimes finding the Bible really difficult to understand? Some days it just breaks open. Some days not.
You are not the only one, and this is why we have genuinely great men of God who have gone before us who have figured out all the hard parts for us lil’ peeps. When I get stuck I refer to these great men of God, to help fill in the blanks but there too I don’t just jump in and trust, I listen for the Holy Spirit’s agreement or disagreement on things.
I will email you quick.
Thank you, Deborah! You know where we were in the Bible this morning (reading through the Gospels): Luke 16. One of those amazing times when things just fell open, as if the Lord was saying to me that I can trust Him (Of course, I can). I almost gasped when I came to verses 27-31 (the conversation between the rich man and Abraham):
Hanelie – thank you so much for your candid input regarding CRC. Very few people will stand up for the truth to testify that the Lord has set them free from this cult.
Do not be discouraged when you sometimes do not seem to grasp the in depth meaning of parts of the Scripture – the Lord gives us only a certain amount of manna daily.
You will also experience difficulties in getting rid of certain Scriptural perceptions – perceptions which formed as result of your longer term involvement with the demonic contortion of doctrine in CRC. Doxa Deo in many of its doctrine does not really differ from CRC.
There are perceptions that people seem to receive the Holy Spirit in places where another doctrine is preached – well I doubt this because we are saved, born again, by the WORD 1Pet.1:23, 1Tim4:16, 2Tim.3:15 and many more verses.
So do we receive the Holy Spirit – through the ministering of the faith. (The Afrikaans is clearer; Dit alleen wil ek van julle weet: het julle die Gees ontvang uit die werke van die wet of uit die prediking van die geloof? – see Gal3:2 for this truth.
Then the LORD gives the Holy Spirit to those who are obedient Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
People seem to think where people fall over backwards in CRC they are saved – where is that in the Bible? Everyone who had a divine encounter fell on their faces in worship and adoration – those falling backward was under God’s judgment!
This poses a serious question; if it is through ministering of the faith and obedience that people receive the Holy Ghost – what spirit are those receiving who fall backwards under a ministry of false doctrine by disobedient preachers??
I have heard plenty similar testimonies of leaders who were in CRC who eventually came out and realised how little they actually knew regarding the Scriptures – hence current leadres having no fervour to a debate doctrine.
A word of encouragement Haneli – stay in the pure unadulterated Word of the LORD and He will with time reveal more and more to you. Remember those who have will receive more and those who do not have even that which they have will be taken away.
If you continue in His Word His truth will set you free.
Bible: Malachi 3:8 “Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me. But you say, how have we robbed You? In tithes and offerings.”
Crc: 3:8 “Will a man rob At? Yet you have robbed At. But you say, how have we robbed At? In tithes and offerings.”
My appologies but this is how it looks to me. If you choose a career as a pastor for God, you choose a career were you are happy to earn a
average salary. Being a pastor is a career to get so rich it bring confusen like I allready seen happend in crc. It opens the door for anti-christ
to choose this tipe of career for the money, i mean any one who does not beleave there is any god wil easily preach the word of God for that
tipe of salery.
You see i think we choose to look for the rich and famouse, because maby that is were our harts is, instead to look for what the Bible
say is the best. 2 Corinthians 2:17 “For we are not like many, adulterating the word of God for profit,but as out of sincerity, but as out of
God, before God we speak in Christ.”
See on passover i was in crc and even then when i thought it is time to praise God for His love for us givin his Son, they used the oppertunity to focus on
tithing and pleging money for crc.
The best for me was when i walk in there and the big poster saying “The future is in our hands” thought the future was was in God’s hands, but maby
thats just me!
I ask the leaders questions and for every question i ask it took them about 4-5 mounths to answer back if they do, then i told them, they just dont care
or dont have an answer or dont want us to know the truth. Now they tell me i must not ask the church for answers i must pray and ask God.
For example they say you can pray untill you turn blue, if you want finacial blessings you must tithe but if you tithe you must not expect any thing back,
this is very confusing to me.
Then i told them but you tell me to test God for they uses the scripture:( Malachi 3:10 “Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse,
that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty,
“and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.”
So i ask them how do i test God if i dont expect any thing back?
There answer: “the word test must actually be trust.”
I dont know but it sound foolish for me to change the Word of God to fit your teaching.
I wanted to know the truth, but didnt receive any reasonable answers regarding tithing back from there leaders, for they tell me now i m
under attack and must ask God for answers and they will pray for me.
They all have deserted me after they told me from the start that they were responsible for my sole.
Any person out there from crc that can give advise, thats how i got to this block because i was looking for the answers myself.
Osito.
If you are from Bloemfontein you are welcome to meet with me so as to show you how foolish CRC and it’s pastor’s teachings are.
For now search in this website under Tithing and you will find all the answers. It is a long document but explains everything!
Should you have more questions after reading through the document please feel free to correspond with me.
Hi Chris,
unfortunatly i stay in Pretoria, it would have been nice to speak to you. l m glad to see that there are still people that are willing to listen because every time i speak to one of the leaders here, they just dont answer me or when i corner them they tell me i am deceived by the devil. I just would like it if they all have a debate on this isues here to reveal the truth, because someone must be wrong or maybe both sides are wrong. It just makes me wonder about the side that does nt wants to debate on these subjects, dont they care about the other people or are they hiding something from there own, “something” that they are afraid might come out? “THE TRUTH”
Hallo Osito.
Both sides are not wrong only one side and that is CRC and it’s pastors, otherwise the Bible and recorded history is also wron which is impossible.
The pastors in CRC will alwatys attack the person instead of debating fact. They realise that they are unable to counter fact and truth hence the easiest way out through personal attack and badmouthing people by condemnation.
They are hiding many things – for example tithing claimed from people to make themselves rich and in very many cases to the expense of poor people.
That is why so many wise are leaving CRC – truth alwas sets one free.
Hallo Chris,
I have read the tithing part and thought i m going to try and prove you wrong, at this point i have no idea were to start. All your facts seems prety good to me. Yesterday i was thinking that if you can speak negativity on someone, isnt it then possible if you are in a church that tells you every sonday that if you dont tithe you are cursed that they speak a curse on to you, if you dont tithe in that church?
Let s see, CRC tells you that if you dont tithe to crc you or your children or your money or whatever are cursed!
CRC uses Malachi 3:8-9.
Galatians 3:13 “Christ has redeemed us out of the curse of the law, having become a curse on our behalf; because it is written, Cursed is everyone hanging on a tree.”
God has died for us so we can not be cursed, if we have faith in Him.
So are you under a curse if you dont tithe?
So how can you be cursed?
Galatians 3:10 “For as many as are of the works of law are under a curse; for it is written, Cursed is everone who does not continue in all things written in the book of the law to do them.”
Now if you can be cursed, you are of the law not of faith.So if you tithe, not to be cursed, it will not keep you from being cursed if you dont keep the entire law. Thats going to be one tought one to keep.
Galatians 3:12 “But the law is not of faith, yet, He who does them shall live becuase of them.”
(Galatians 3:12) show us it s good to live according to the law, but does not say under the law, then you will be cursed.
Now my qeustion is, CRC tells you you will be cursed if you dont tithe, are they a church without faith? Because faith and curse dont fit together. And then the best is, they put this all together in one receipe, “if someone is broke they are cursed, they cursed because they do not have faith, they dont have faith because they dont tithe.”
Telling there people they must have faith but with faith they can still be cursed. mmmh? And then when they themself dont have the faith in God to provide money, telling there people lies! You are under a CURSE or give us your MONEY!
Now if you need money for God purpose, thats not for your own luxury s,ask, dont scare people to give. I dont think God will prove that.Scare them!!!
Osito, Good for you man! You hit the nail right on the head!
It is good and pleasing to see people realise the truth.
Blessings
Thanks Chris for your reply and your concern. Blessings to all Gods children and that they will not just stand blind and go on there feeling like Isaac whent on his feeling.
Gen 27:22 “And Jacob came near to Isaac his father. And he felt him and said, The voice is Jacob s voice, but the hands are Esau hands.”
23 “And he did not recognize him, because his hands were hairy like his brother Esau s hands; so he blessed him.”
People trust there feeling bypass Gods word, I hope people will start research and learn from the Bible.
Eph 4:14″That we may be no longer little children tossed by waves and carried about every wind of teaching in the sleight of men, in craftiness with a view to a system of error,”
And blessings to every one standing for the truth of God s word.
I want to prove to someone that the doctrine should be perfect from scripture, please help?