Eric von Anderseck – Mystery Christ ‘blowing his Trumpet’ – Identified
Eric von Anderseck – Mystery Christ ‘blowing his Trumpet’ – Identified
It’s Metatron.
Second 8th Week Apostolic Institute of Theology are an online based organisation where you sign up to study with them and they send you ‘biblical’ course material. The problem is the course material is not biblical, the founders of this institute are cult leaders and their entire gospel is based around the Book of Enoch.
Second 8th Week Ministries – South Africa
“God is now pouring out His Grace upon the nations bringing believers back to the Second Covenant of Jesus Christ. The second 8th Week is the time allotted by God for the restoration of the true and living knowledge of Jesus Christ. It is now the time for the body of Christ to come into a unity and oneness that reflect the kingdom of God.” —
This is what Dr. Eric von Anderseck, founder of Second 8th Week, has to say:
“Dear Prospective Students:
On behalf of myself and the staff, I would like to extend a warm welcome to you! As you may know, the church is in an exciting time of transition back to her first love, back to the first works of the Second Covenant of Jesus Christ. As a steward of the house of Jesus Christ, His judgments of mercy for the church were revealed to me in 1982. The word of the Lord said to me:
‘THERE SHALL BE A UNITY THAT SHALL NOT BE FEIGNED, AND A ONENESS THAT WILL NOT BE DECEITFUL.’
The Lord is speaking of the restoration of His church. Before it was in our minds to pray for revival, it was in the mind and heart of God. Before we knew to ask God to return the church to true Apostolic Governance, it was in the mind of our Lord. Before we knew to cry out to God for truth, it was in the mind of the Lord to return the church to the unity of the faith and the cross of Christ. We know that when God gives a word He already has a plan to bring that word to pass and a season for its fulfillment.
What begins as a still small voice that is heard by a few, grows until the word of the Lord fills the earth, making glad the hearts of all those who hear. God has marked this time in church history to restore living apostles to teach and nurture the church. For As God sent Adam to steward His garden so God sends apostles to steward His divine nature in the hearts of His saints. The apostles of Jesus Christ: Peter, John, James, and Paul were called of God to direct the church in righteousness and build the church in faith.
The grace of God did not end with the twelve apostles of Jesus Christ. By step upon step and order by order the church is built by the Spirit of the Lord through living apostles today. The Bible teaches that the New Testament is not the letter of the text, but the living record of Jesus Christ. Therefore apostles teach Christ by the pattern of His covenant and believers live by the power of the Spirit. Second 8th Week Apostolic Institute of Theology has much to offer. If you are a believer in Christ and would like to transition into the Second Covenant to grow up into Christ’s fulness and learn how to minister to others, we welcome you.
The season is manifest for leaders and ministers to join hands to labor in His field, reaping the end time harvest. The righteous rejoice in the equity of God, which we carry to all places, to all brethren, to enrich all in the faith. Enrollment into the Second 8TH Week Apostolic Institute of Theology covers all the basics of the Christian walk and preparation for ministerial duties. Curriculum covers the foundation of truth, why the church needs living apostles today, Discipleship, Doxology Training, Dream Workshop, Pattern Recognition Skills, stewardship, and God’s Intelligent Design for Christ-Centered Spiritual Transformation in the soul. If you are a minister seeking leadership training and accreditation, we welcome you. If you are a minister and have a congregation, Bible study group, or college and you would like to transition into the Second Covenant, we welcome you.
If you are looking for a church home, we welcome you to take our membership course and begin to assemble with us online. Let your hands be strong to labor in righteousness. charity will release the soul of bondage.” — http://www.second8thweek.com
But wait! Not only did Eric von Anderseck get a message from Jesus in 1982, Jesus also gave him one in 1984:
“TELL THEM I AM COME TO BRING LIFE … I AM COME TO BRING THEM OUT OF DARKNESS. LOVE JESUS.” —
But wait, you are probably wanting to know WHO Metatron is?
“For centuries Christians have been fearful of Prophet Enoch’s writings, in part due to the distortion of his identity with Adam’s grandson, named Enoch who was the father of the Mystery Religions and all idolatries and partly due to the confusion of another Enoch, the son of wicked Cain who slew his brother Able.
The Prophet Enoch, a holy man of God, is spoken of in the Bible in Genesis 5:23-24, “And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years. And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.” He was raptured, or translated to heaven, as we read in the book of Hebrews, “By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God” (Heb.11:5).
God was pleased with Enoch so translated him to heaven. It also pleased God to change his name to Metatron and give him a multi-dimensional tour of the cosmos, the mystery of His Throne, God’s creation from beginning to end, and the behind the scenes look at His invisible kingdom and master plan for us” — “Concise Commentary of the Books of Enoch”, Eric W.B. vonAnderseck Th.D, D.D. http://book-of-enoch.org
The following people are apostles at Second 8th Week Ministries in South Africa:
- John Welty
- Rina Bekker
- Nena Kleimola
- George Kleimola
- Cobus Wolmarans
- Bart Neethling
Why Mosselbay? Well…
“‘n Menigde profesieê en openbaringe meld dat daar ‘n groot herlewing sal wees en dat dit in die Kaap provinsie sal begin. Meeste Suid Afrikaners is baie bekend met Siener van Rensburg. Vanaf 1871 tot en met sy dood in 1926 het hy meer as 700 visioene oor die toekoms van Suid Afrika, ander nasies asook wêreld gebeure gehad. Sy profesieê is tot vandag toe veelbesproke.
Hy het die groot griep epidemie van 1918 profeteer; Engeland se verlies van al haar kolonies, die onafhanklikheid van Ierland, Die Chernobyl ramp van 1986, Princess Diana se egskeiding en dood “‘n pragtige Engelse dame in ‘n motor ongeluk wat deur die hele wêreld betreur sou word) asook die bankrotskap en skuld van Amerika en Engeland.
Alhoewel meeste van sy visioene oor wêreldgebeure, politiek en oorloê was, was daar buitengewone openbaringe wat hy ontvang het, wat hy nie kon plaas nie, wat vir ons dalk van belang kan wees en wat inskakel by die huidige visioene in die lug oor Mosselbaai.
In 1924 profeteer hy; “Ek het ‘n eienaardige optog van mense gesien; Ek sien ‘n wawiel rol uit Kaapland oor die ganse Suid Afrika en sien ‘n groot skare mense saamdrom. Dis ver in die toekoms en ek glo nie dis oorlog nie. Dit lyk soos ‘n trek. In die boek ‘Stem van die Profeet’ word daar na hierdie optog verwys as ‘n ossewatrek. Dit weerspreek dan die feit dat die profesie se ‘dis ver in die toekoms.’ Ons is lank nie meer in die era van die ossewa nie. Hierdie is ‘n geestelike profesie, daarom kon die siener nie bepaal wat hierdie skare mense voorstel nie. God lig nou hierdie profesieê uit aan die wat Sy tydvlak verstaan.
Siener van Rensburg meld ook dat die tweede koms van Jesus Christus, ‘n JUBELJAAR sal wees en dat dit sal veroorsaak dat die grense van Suid-Afrika verleng sal word tot in Zimbabwe and Namibia. Hy sê dan ook in een van sy profesieê dat die probleme in Suid Afrika van baie korter duur sal wees as dit vergelyk word met ander lande, want die Here gaan Sy krag en seên oor ons uitstort en so veroorsaak dat Suid Afrika ‘n veilige hawe gaan wees vir Christene van oral oor die wêreld.
Siener van Rensburg het ook voorspel dat “duisende Christene Europa gaan verlaat en na Suid Afrika toe gaan stroom. Hy het gesien hoe hierdie mense se tente staan vanaf die KAAP tot in die Kalahari en Namibiê; vanaf Durban tot in Mosambiek (Maputu). Dit sal tydelike verblyf aan Christene bied; want Suid Afrika sal in daardie tye glo nie net die veiligste land ter wêreld wees nie, maar ook die enigste Christenland. (Stem van die Profeet deur Adriaan Snyman)
Apostel Rina Bekker van Second 8th Week Bedieninge, wat 10 jaar gelede een van Suid Afrika se nuutste Apostoliese bewegings hier in Mosselbaai gestig het, glo dat daar ‘n geestelike skakel is wat hierdie profesieê koppel aan dit wat God nou hier in Mosselbaai doen.
“Ek glo daar is ‘n direkte skakel tussen die Trompet foto’s, die Herder in die wolke en die siener se profesieê. Ek glo dat God duidelik met ons praat deur die Siener se profesieê, wat duidelik verwys na die JUBELJAAR (waarin ons nou is) God bevestig dit nou met hierdie tekens in die lug.”
Die optog van mense en Christene wat van dwarsoor die wêreld instroom na Suid Afrika, spreek van God se wekroep tot al die nasies. Hy roep die massas op na hierdie area om met Sy eindtyd werk te begin. Vyftien jaar gelede het God aan my openbaar dat Sy herlewing hier in Mosselbaai gaan begin, en soos wat God Sy tekens en wonders gaan vermeerder, gaan die boodskap en krag van God soos ‘n wiel uitrol. “Ek het gesien hoe dit begin in Mosselbaai en dan uitrol tot in Kaapstad, dan weer in die teenoorgestelde rigting na Port Elizabeth, dan uit in al die dele van die land, die wêreld in.” Ons leef in ‘n tyd van vervulling van hierdie profesieê.
As ons na die wiel in Siener van Rensburg se profesie kyk kan ons ook die skakel sien met woorde wat in die afgelope paar maande in apostoliese byeenkomste deurgegee is. God het woorde deurgegee oor “die wiel van mobilisasie”, “mobilisasie van die kerk” . In Januarie 2010 het God aan apostel Rina die volgende woord gegee: “Ek mobiliseer nou my kerk.”
Geestelik gesproke is die kerk op ‘n laagtepunt en is dit nodig dat sy sal terugkeer na God se goddelike orde vir geloof, die verbond van Jesus Christus. Ons het briewe ontvang van mense oral oor Afrika wat die foto’s van die Trompet Basuin en die Herder in die wolke gesien het, en hierdie dinge bevestig wat God nou openbaar. Internasionale reaksie stroom nou ook in.” —
OKAY, well this has opened up a whole new can of worms.
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Original photo in the article: Christ appears in cloud at Mosselbay
Rosa Ellis took a photo using her cell phone while in Danabaai where she claims you can clearly see Christ holding a lamb in his arms. Apostle Rina Bekker says this is also a sign of the end times.
And here is a picture of the red trumpet. They say,
“The photo was of a huge trumpet in the sky of Mossel Bay South Africa. This was not a cloud formation, but as you can see in the photo, a clear and unmistakable trumpet. The photograph is authentic and has not been edited in any way.” —
… I think they should have edited the picture cos it looks like a Vuvuzela.
—————-
Lest I forget THY agony…Lord lead me to Calvary.
Melissa
1. please state here what Gospel you are sharing?
A. What the apostles taught and preached which is the covenant of Jesus Christ. —-But Eric is an Apostle as well according to you, does this include what Eric teaches? Including the Books of Enoch and Lost Books Of Eden.
2. How are people saved?
A. By responding to the grace of God in truth, and building His House by the Spirit, which are the works of righteousness. As Paul said, If you keep in memory what I preached unto you.” —- Can you elaborate more please
3. How do you believe people receive eternal life?
A. By faith in Jesus Christ, as John said to love one another, and Paul said abounding in faith and charity in keeping His commandments. —- Can you elaborate more please
4. what is your gospel message?
A. From God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. The tether of His grace joins us to Him by those things He sanctified for our faith to be made perfect. The kingdom of God is built in the soul by the Spirit. —- Can you elaborate more please
Melissa wrote;
2. How are people saved?
A. By responding to the grace of God in truth, and building His House by the Spirit, which are the works of righteousness. As Paul said, If you keep in memory what I preached unto you.”
3. How do you believe people receive eternal life?
A. By faith in Jesus Christ, as John said to love one another, and Paul said abounding in faith and charity in keeping His commandments
Sorry Melissa I do not mean disrespect to you in person but this is nonsense…
The message is clear and simple.We are saved by accepting Christ’s atonement…the personal acceptance of this great act of love and surrender of our lives to Him that He died for my sins and yours and acknowledging this with renouncing the old sinful life which is crucified with Him on the cross and that He gives new life and forgiveness of our sins..because He conquered sin and death and rose again.. We accept all that He did there.This results in a new life and we are born of the Spirit and choose to live for Him and repent of our past sins and choose to obey Him. When this is done in sincere honesty we are changed immediately and our names written in the book of life…which is a booking in heaven where we will enjoy eternity.
You are not saying the same thing and this type of teaching is mixing partial truths with untruths and the powerful message is lost.
Michael
They are DEFINITELY not saying the same thing. In fact if I was unsaved and I ran into these guys I would not have a clue what they were talking about.
This is why there are so many that attend meetings and watch tv programs that are deluded into thinking they are saved but carry on living the way they always have…there is very little (if any) change in their lives.
They claim to have experiences but you are not saved by experiences or happenings…these things are more delusional and appeal to the flesh and entirely subjective.
You can only be saved by accepting and acting out of the true gospel and the real Jesus…nothing else will do…false,distorted and watered down gospels (teachings) result in worshipping a false “Jesus” in fact not Jesus at all but demonic spirits.
Absolutely and this is what Second8thWeek preaches along with their false gospels of Enoch and Eden and Gnostic practices of using knowledge to try attain higher levels of enlightenment.
I wonder what happend to that Peet ouk ??? apparently a Pastor ….. funny they come in with a bang ……. it gets to hot for them
Melissa
Can you explain to me in pretty good detail what are physical contact points and spiritual contact points.?
Evangelist Melissa, the gospel you are preaching is not the true Gospel. I say this with love and respect that you would come here and dialog with us. I don’t mean to be critical, but I must defend the uncompromised Gospel. I believe you are sincere, but also sincerely wrong.
You are preaching a Gospel of grace but you mix it with works. I absolutely agree with Michael – this is what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that salvation is a gift that we cannot earn. It is received through faith and repentance. We accept the sacrifice of Christ on the cross for our sins, past, present and future. We surrender our lives to Him.
Then we grow as Christians by studying the Word and allowing God to guide us into how to be obedient to Him. The Bible is our standard and our only standard. When we are saved we are given the Holy Spirit Who is our Teacher.
That is the Gospel. Anything added to that is false.
At the cross He experienced this;
“I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting” (Isaiah 50:6).
Nothing could be clearer than this:
“He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all” (Isaiah 53:5-6).
And if this is not clear…
He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
9 And they made His grave with the wicked—
But with the rich at His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was any deceit in His mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
Burning Lamp wrote:
The bible speaks of 3 kinds of works, the works of the flesh, the works of the law and the works of faith. Faith without works is dead.
We can not work our way to heaven through the works of the flesh, and yes our salvation is a free gift, but it is not free of responsibility. We are born kings and called “priest” without a priesthood according to covenant there is no salvation.
Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:
Gnositc Origin of GNOSTIC: Late Latin gnosticus, from Greek gnōstikos of knowledge, Natural theology is the attempt to establish knowledge of God without dependence on revelation. We live by grace (revelation of God to us) but the unconverted believers seek to define God by knowledge only. They have separated God from His work, and seek to identify with Christ apart from His covenant.
Deb you are trying to forge an image of God by association of the biblical character and not covenant faith which builds with grace, faith and charity.
Michael wrote:
1. So Paul, Moses, and the prophets were ‘delusional’ by your gospel?
2.The modern church is without the Godhead being absent of stewardship, so they seek confirmations of outside of Him which the Laughter Movement sprung up from within that system. Other Churches seek to fill the spiritual void by emphases on worldly… issues, apocalyptic themes, wealth, investments, Denominational evangelism, and moral struggles.
3. Eph.1: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Dear Deborah and Burning Lamp
Deborah: Thank you for posting what I had to say
Burning Lamp:
You said: You are preaching a Gospel of grace but you mix it with works. And in the same message you say: “…how to be OBEDIENT to Him.”
Doesn’t obedience denote an ACTIVITY. Isn’t obedience a RESPONSIBILITY? And if works is not required what did the apostle James mean with the following?
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is DEAD, being alone.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD?
What works was he talking about? He was clearly reminding them that their faith had to be tethered to some activity. Because these churches had heard James and the other Apostles teachings (foundation knowledge) they were familiar with the works James was talking about. They didn’t scratch their heads about it and say. “Wow isn’t this contradictory to what the other Apostles say? What does James mean here. Maybe we should pray about it because we are clearly confused. The Spirit will enlighten us.”
NO! They knew he was talking about the Spiritual works of the second covenant. He taught them this already!
So it’s clear to see that works depict an activity which is a responsibility in order for faith to truly be living
Now you can go and you can give me the following seemingly contradictory verses:
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began
The works talked about here is not the works James talked about. James talked about the sanctified works of the covenant that is a responsibility of faith and Timothy and Paul talked about the works of the flesh (born from the imagination) and the works of the law of Moses.
In other letters the apostle Paul also reminded the Galatians not to mix the law of Moses with their faith.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW (of Moses), but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
So yes Salvation is free in that we do nothing to earn this wonderful gift of God. He saves us by Grace, BUT it is not free of responsibility. Faith was never free of responsibility. But this is what man wants. They want to claim the promises of the scripture but they don’t want the responsibility of serving God.
So God issues the sinner Grace. He realises he needs salvation through Jesus Christ as the Light of Christ enters the soul. He yields to Grace. He yields to this revelation of Jesus Christ. This is Faith. He gets baptized by the Spirit, evidenced by tongues. So now what? How is this person supposed to work out his salvation in fear and trembling ie what is the responsibility of faith?
Php 2:12 …WORK OUT your own SALVATION with fear and trembling.
Working out your salvation again depicts an activity which is a responsibility of faith. You can search the scriptures all you want you will never get ‘n list and step by step of “How to serve God”. So why didn’t the Apostles write this down in their letters to the churches? They didn’t need to. Because the Apostles have already laid the foundation knowledge in the heart of the believers while they were at their assemblies.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I (the apostle) have laid the foundation…
Act 2:42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ DOCTRINE (foundation knowledge) and fellowship (they were LIVING leaders of the church, not running the church from their graves. A dead king cannot rule a country), and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Before writing their epistles the Apostles have already taught them the first works of Christ. They already taught them the definitions of Grace, Faith, Righteousness, Justification, Holiness Sanctification etc. (foundation knowledge needed for living faith). The letters were to remind them of these things, not to lay the first principles (foundation knowledge) in their hearts all over again.
Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the FIRST PRINCIPLES of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Christians need these FIRST PRINCIPLES/ FOUNDATION KNOWLEDGE/TRUTH/RECORD OF CHRIST in order to serve God and yes, they need it in order to know what the Apostles meant in their epistles.
You do what a lot of people do. They tell the people what they should do. Seek God, Seek His peace, Be obedient, Allow God to guide you. Let the Holy Spirit teach you. The list goes on and on. What is left out. and what is the most crucial, is the HOW. HOW do seek God? With what do I seek God? HOW am I obedient? HOW do I allow the Spirit to guide and teach me? These things are the gospel of Christ. The History of Christ, His being the Son of God, His death, resurrection and atonement for our sins, are great and leads the sinner to the point of repentance, but it does not give DIRECTION for faith.
So for the past 2000 years Christians have been left up to their own devices to figure out HOW to do these things and most are left confused and frustrated. They have these letters from the apostles, but they don’t have the foundation knowledge to read the letters from the standpoint of Truth. They don’t understand the letters they way the church of the first century did.
When you look at the history of the world, does this sound like God to you? “My child, here is a book, you figure out how to please Me, but remember there is only ONE FAITH, so I hope you don’t figure it out wrong.”
Didn’t God give the Isrealites KNOWLEDGE through a chosen steward (Moses)? Didn’t God give the people KNOWLEDGE through his prophets? Didn’t God give KNOWLEDGE through David? Why would God all of a sudden decide that knowledge is no longer needed? That man’s imagination would suffice? Why would God, who is intent on service to Him being PERFECT, allow man to serve Him haphazardly
Deu 18:13 Thou shalt be PERFECT with the LORD thy God.
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore PERFECT (commandment, not request), even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Isn’t God a God of order, knowledge and structure? Isn’t He the same today yesterday and tomorrow? He is! After Christ ascended into heaven the Apostles were the stewards of the mysteries of God. They gave the church KNOWLEDGE for faith. Knowledge of how to function in the second covenant.
Another thing. The bible is not the standard of God. CHRIST is the standard. The bible is not the word of God. CHRIST is the WORD of God. It wasn’t the bible that was with God from the beginning (it hasn’t even been written yet) it was CHRIST that was with God from the beginning. Christ is the pattern for our faith He is the standard for our faith. He is the foundation knowledge laid in the heart of the believer. Christ is TRUTH/pattern of service to God/ record for faith. The bible merely confirms this. The bible CONFIRMS Christ. This is what Jesus was bringing out to the Pharisees when He said the following:
Joh 5:39-40 Search the scriptures; for in them ye THINK ye have eternal life: and they are they which TESTIFY (confirms) of me and you will not come to me that you might have life
Jesus was saying to the Pharisees: You search the scriptures, trying to resolve your little issues and problems of life and in this process you make the scriptures about you. About your life, your relationships, your issues. But the scriptures TESTIFY of Me. They were written about Me. LIFE is in ME not the scriptures. But you reject ME.
So in conclusion: We need to have knowledge to know which works make faith living and allow us to WORK OUT (depicting an activity) our salvation (working out showing that the salvaging (healing) of the soul is an ongoing process not a once of occurrence) with fear and in trembling. To know How to serve God in Spirit and in Truth and bear forth the fruit of His Kingdom. The forming of the fruit of Christ in us is salvation and doens’t happen instantaneously, but takes a life time. And the bible alone is not sufficient for faith. You need to be tethered to Government, Truth (record of Christ) and, of course, the Spirit
Monique
Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:
I discern that your desire is not to know what they are regarding the benefit of gaining Christ and the knowledge of them for the new covenant priesthood, but to debate and ridicule.
If at some point you would like to understand the “knowledge” of the covenant and learn how to serve God in spirit and in truth I will with all sincerity assist you through the knowledge of the covenant and of the spiritual tools of the faith and those that are carnal which the church has yoked herself to.
Hello everybody. Eric you are not an Apostle.Refuting false doctrine is not tantamount to hating the true brethern , or the false brethern. The scriptures teach us to contend for the faith and to beware of false teachers, don’t support your position by further twisting the scriptures and accusing those of hate who disagree with your false doctrine. Your doctrine appeals to your pride. Respectfully. The most loving thing a person can do for you is tell you the truth.
Burning Lamp wrote:
Then you admit the fact that ‘works’ are a necessary component to your faith. First you mockingly denied any activity was necessary, but then admitted it was by saying ‘by studying the Word’. So truth is necessary and then apostles also. For who can validate that which people claim as the leading of the Holy Ghost?
Melissa
>> Deb you are trying to forge an image of God by association of the biblical character and not covenant faith which builds with grace, faith and charity.
No Melissa, when you speak like a Gnostic, and you read Gnostic books, then you are a Gnostic. This ‘covenant faith’ you keep speaking about is Second8thweek nonsense. I am born again through Jesus Christ, not the Christ you serve.
That is just classic, how did I know you were going to say something like that. You know secrecy is of the devil. Now nowhere in the bible do I find anything do to with these CONTACT POINTS. Please provide scripture for these. And when I ask a question its because I actually want an answer. I will not be joining your cult to find out the answer to this question Melissa.
1) Oh boy, these people think the word WORKS is anything that’s a verb – no wonder they are so confused.
2) And no where does Melissa mention repentance as a WORK, that one is CONVENIENTLY left out.
3) And for the past 2000 years Melissa negates the work of the Holy Spirit in Christians lives – since only NOW does Second8thWeek have the answer to the churches problems. Thing is; THERE WAS NEVER A PROBLEM with the GENUINE Church Melissa. Because you miss the Holy Spirit in your life, you FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THIS CRUCIAL POINT and YOU are the one missing out. You speak about knowledge but you do not not have the knowledge of the Holy Spirit. All your knowledge is LEARNT, a genuine born again Christians knowledge comes from the Holy Spirit who LEADS US into ALL TRUTH AND ALL REMEMBRANCE OF JESUS CHRIST.
Melissa wrore;
1. So Paul, Moses, and the prophets were ‘delusional’ by your gospel?
2.The modern church is without the Godhead being absent of stewardship, so they seek confirmations of outside of Him which the Laughter Movement sprung up from within that system. Other Churches seek to fill the spiritual void by emphases on worldly… issues, apocalyptic themes, wealth, investments, Denominational evangelism, and moral struggles.
3. Eph.1: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Michael replied;
I. I never said anything about “my gospel”…I was talking about the true simple gospel recorded in the scriptures.
What has this to do with Paul and Moses?
2.Where do you read this in the scriptures that the Godhead (Father,Son and Holy Spirit)has deserted the church and define what represents the “modern” church.
3.What has Eph 1:22 got to do with the above.
You are not making any sense at all and misrepresent not only the truth as is written in the Word of God but misrepresent what I wrote.
I suggest you try communicating the truth and have at least some integrity to not to twist,distort and confuse.
I am sorry I am angry because you simply do NOT tell the truth…if it simply was misunderstanding then that’s fine but there was no reference to “my gospel”
I also want to add that I am not going any further with this issue as their is wilful rejection of the basic scriptures of salvation and repentance…further more there is manipulation of texts and scriptures taken out of context.
I have said enough…you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make it drink.
Melissa said:
Then you admit the fact that ‘works’ are a necessary component to your faith. First you mockingly denied any activity was necessary, but then admitted it was by saying ‘by studying the Word’. So truth is necessary and then apostles also. For who can validate that which people claim as the leading of the Holy Ghost?
You seem to think I am mocking you – please understand that I am not. I am pleading with you to face the facts and the truth of the Word of God because I care about anyone who is being deluded. That is why Deborah has this website – she cares. I want to THANK you for coming here to dialog. I pray the Lord can use us to be of help to you. Please understand, we don’t consider ourselves anything other than humble servants of our Lord Who gave everything for us. Please seriously consider what is being presented here.
My statements were not conflicting at all. You apparently don’t understand justification – we are justified (saved) by faith – as the Bible says not of ourselves (anything we can do for ourselves)and faith ALONE. Faith is not a work.
But after we are saved, the Bible says we are saved to do good works. That part is sanctification. They are two separate processes.
The works come AFTER one has salvation. Any works done before salvation are as filthy rags before the Lord. There is NOTHING we can do to earn our salvation except to acknowledge Him and our need for a Savior and surrender our lives to Him. That means repentance, not only sorow for our sins, but the desire to turn from them. We do this because we have a new Spirit, we are reborn spiritually and our desires change. But we have to grow and that comes through study of the Word.
And BOTH of them are accomplished through the Holy Spirit to each person individually. Yes, there are pastors, but there is a big difference between a pastor and an apostle. No person living today can meet the qualifications given in Scripture for being an apostle. Consider this verse in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15:
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
Further warning was issued to the Galatian churches: “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8). Anyone claiming to be an apostle today who teaches anything in addition to the New Testament is clearly not an apostle of Christ!
If you look at any of the self-proclaimed “apostles” today you will see without fail that they are adding to the Bible.
And the Bible says, not me, that such are “accursed”. Those are sobering words.
In Matthew 19:28 Jesus informed Peter and the other apostles: “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” NKJV
Melissa, there are only 12 thrones, no room for the false self-proclaimed modern-day “apostles”.
There are those that are genuinely seeking and those that are all puffed-up ego’s that are more interested in vain argument…
for those who want the real gospel… http://www.bibleguidance.co.za/Engarticles/Repent.htm
Monique, thank you for coming to dialog and thank you for quoting verses. I appreciate that you use the Word of God.
We agree that salvation is a gift and there is no way we can earn it. This is a rebirth, when we become alive in Christ and receive the Holy Spirit. That is justification. God has adopted us and made us His child.
Now, you are right, as James says there is a responsiblity. HOWEVER, God wants us to serve out of a heart of LOVE and gratitude for what He has done for us rather than a sense of duty. There is a BIG difference!
Also, some people take the verses about working out our salvation and run with it and say we can lose our salvation. The salvation issue is settled. With our new heart and attitude we have different desires and we want to live for Christ. But we have to study the Word and pray and seek God’s will for our lives. If we fail to do that as believers we will be chastened by our Heavenly Father as any good parent will do. There are consequences to disobedience, but losing one’s salvation is not one of them.
Then there is the issue of rewards – obedience will result in rewards at the Bema seat – disobedience will result in loss of rewards.
So bottom line there are two issues involved. One is the first step to become a true born-again believer. The first step is the same for everyone. The second will vary with each individual as they grow in faith.
Satan works to confuse the simple truths. There are no conflicts in the Bible as some like to use James as a club to beat believers into submission. James simply is exhorting us to good works – but we must remember that good works to bear good fruit must be done with the right heart attitude. People can do good works to glorify themselves and not God. Those are what the Bible calls “hay and stubble” and will b burned up and count for nothing.
Monique, I want to add a couple of things.
You said: And the bible alone is not sufficient for faith.
Yes, Christ is the Word. But there is no distinction or separation. The Word is Christ, Christ is the Word. Therefore the Word is all that is needed. It is fully sufficient. Christ accended to heaven and then sent the Holy Spirit to reveal truth to us. His Word is living and powerful as a double-edged sword. Monique, it IS ALL we need. To say that we need extrabiblical revelation is a lie from the pit of hell. I hate to be so blunt, but that is exactly what it is.
Also, you seem to go with the Pentecostal belief that evidence of the Spirit’s Baptism is speaking in tongues. This is a false and dangerous teaching. Not everyone who is a Christian speaks in tongues. I know of people who have gone to pentecostal gatherings and have been “coached” to speak in tongues. This is playing with fire. There are counterfeits to true gifts. Even if one believes that speaking in tongues is for today, this is a false teaching. It appeals to pride – one person has the baptism and others do not.
Deborah (Discerning the World) wrote:
Deb,
To your false accusation of “secrecy” again you walk in error for here for all the world to see is a free PDF called the Tools of the Covenant. You do not have to “join” anything, just down load and read.
Covered in “Covenant Tools”
• What are tools?
• How God establishes a tie between Himself and us concerning His promise.
• How God represents Himself in covenant by a token.
• What God provided to establish relationship with man and give structure and
function to faith.
• Overview of the 9 tools of the Second Covenant.
In Christ~Evangelist Melissa
[EDITED by DTW: My original question was this:
“Can you explain to me in pretty good detail what are physical contact points and spiritual contact points.?”
You replied: “I discern that your desire is not to know what they are regarding the benefit of gaining Christ and the knowledge of them for the new covenant priesthood, but to debate and ridicule. If at some point you would like to understand the “knowledge” of the covenant and learn how to serve God in spirit and in truth I will with all sincerity assist you through the knowledge of the covenant and of the spiritual tools of the faith and those that are carnal which the church has yoked herself to.”
Now you reply to me with some cocky answer, like I am stupid or something. Just stop it. I did NOT ASK about ‘covenant tools’ I asked, “Can you explain to me in pretty good detail what are physical contact points and spiritual contact points.?”
And I ask again, “Can you explain to me in pretty good detail what are physical contact points and spiritual contact points.?” If there is info on your site, go and copy and paste it here, I am not going to go look for it.]
Melissa and Monique
A lot of grammar that does not make one bit of sense. Dosent change the fact that Jesus Christ is Lord and HE is OUR only WAY to eternal salvation. By reading the bible our minds are renewed and transformed casting our old ways aside and becoming more like CHRIST. I pray you truly find the real JESUS.
Stop twisting the bible. The truth you need is in the bible. Whoever adds or takes away from the WORD is false and a deceiver who will lead many to perish. May the Holy Spirit guide you to all truth.