Are Catholics Christian?
Please would you be so kind as to vote in this very important poll.
I have dubbed this voting station:
The worlds first accurate poll on Catholicism
Even if you have no intention of reading this blog further I would really appreciate 5 seconds of your time to click either Yes or No and submit your answer.
The reason I only have 2 options is because I want an accurate statistic on Catholicism as a whole. Roman Catholics, Catholics or Charismatic Catholics all stem from the same core doctrine.
If you are not sure, please vote Yes – Reason: you are probably thinking that there are some Catholics who are Christian. So please vote Yes in this case.
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Please vote, then comment below in the comments section of this blog, if you wish.
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I see there are a whole 2 votes, my own included, and I, as always, was the voice of dissent! 😉 I was hoping the lone voter who said “yes” would or could explain their reasoning for dubbing Catholics as Christians. I say a BIG FAT NO!
Actually 4 votes now, and have yet to cast my ballot lol
I do believe there are saved Christians in the Catholic church just as there are unsaved Christians among Protestants. It is a wide question though. I do believe, however, that constantly having to do a balancing act between a true Christian life and Catholic doctrine must be very difficult.
Elmarie
If they were truly saved they would instantly leave the catholic faith.
Do you really know what the Catholic Faith is about?
And actually it’s not one bit difficult to discern between the two.
good point(s) Elmarie. The (large number) of Catholics I’ve been friends with in my life up to now, or have talked to at one time or the other, cling to the Roman Catholic institution/organization’s dogma’s and rules etc. even though many of them would in the same breath say they believe in Jesus Christ, they still consistantly MUST take part in the Mass.
the question is actually very WIDE.
“CATHOLIC” actually mean:
• Catholic
a. Of or involving the Roman Catholic Church.
b. Of or relating to the universal Christian church.
c. Of or relating to the ancient undivided Christian church.
d. Of or relating to those churches that have claimed to be representatives of the ancient undivided church.
http://www.answers.com/topic/catholic
1. Universal or general; as, the catholic faith. [1913 Webster]
Men of other countries [came] to bear their part in so great and catholic a war. –Southey. [1913 Webster]
Note: This epithet, which is applicable to the whole Christian church, or its faith, is claimed by Roman Catholics to belong especially to their church, and in popular usage is so limited. [1913 Webster]
2. Not narrow-minded, partial, or bigoted; liberal; as, catholic tastes. [1913 Webster]
3. Of or pertaining to, or affecting the Roman Catholics; as, the Catholic emancipation act. [1913 Webster]
Catholic epistles, the epistles of the apostles which are addressed to all the faithful, and not to a particular church; being those of James, Peter, Jude, and John. [1913 Webster]
Source: The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48
http://www.dictionary.net/catholic
The word Catholic is derived from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning “universal”.[1] In the context of Christian ecclesiology, it has a rich history and several usages. For some, the term “Catholic Church” refers to the church in full communion with the Bishop of Rome, made up of the Latin Rite and the 22 Eastern Catholic Churches; this is the common usage in most countries. Most Catholics do not identify themselves as “Roman,” but simply as Catholic. Protestants sometimes use the term “Catholic Church” to refer to all believers in Jesus Christ across the world and the ages, regardless of “denominational” affiliation[citation needed]. The Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans and some Methodists believe that their churches are catholic in the sense that they are in continuity with the original universal church founded by the Apostles. Both the Catholic and Orthodox churches believe that their church is the only original and universal church. In “Catholic Christendom” (including the Anglican Communion), bishops are considered the highest order of ministers within the Christian religion, as shepherds of unity in communion with the whole church and one another.[2] Catholicity is considered one of Four Marks of the Church, the others being unity, sanctity, and apostolicity.[3] according to the Nicene Creed of 381: “I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic
These are 3 very good sites for definitions. But it all comes down on this:
Everywhere one reads about “catholic” – without the “Roman” in front, it actually means :
Universal, general, (ancient) undivided.
The Nicene Creed states this very exact words: “I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church” in Afrikaans: “Ek glo aan ‘n heilige, algemene, christelike kerk”
Based on this, my answer would actually be “yes”.
DTW, you did not leave space for that “BUT…..” !!! and I’d like to say: “but” if you put “Roman” in front of catholic, it changes the meaning of the phrase!
But there’s more to it! We all know that the Roman Catholic Organization (church?) is the “mother” – the sisters obviously have a connection with the mother, because they “came out of her” and the other churches follow suite and “came out of the sister churches”. So if we say “Roman Catholics” can’t be christian, then, because of the fact that ALL other churches’ roots were / are still in the Roman Catholic Organization (the mother), they (their members?) are NOT christians?
This is a very wide and deep discussion. I’m glad that there is God Almighty Who knows exactly who are the real church and who is playing church to enrich themselves or to make a name for themselves – both of whom there are thousands doing exactly that, yet calling themselves ‘christian’.
I think IF we could stand still for a moment and look up the verses in Scripture (as is – meaning, not what we think it means, or what we would like it to mean, or take away from or put extra ‘to explain it better’) about the “jealous” God we say we serve, most of us will run to the mountains and ask the mountains to fall on us and hide us, so the torment and judgment of God Almighty will not fall on us (so quickly…)!
How do I vote? Well, let me lay my head on the slammer block – I voted “no”. why? I denied the ‘mother’ (long time ago) and chose to serve God Almighty according to Scripture and all it implies – and yes, it includes caring for those in prison, giving food for the hungry (NOT ONCE a year on Ramadan!) (sorry, I had to get that in!), I would give whatever Holy Spirit ask of me to give, whether it is time, money or physical things like food and clothing. I do all this with an open hand, because it is according to Scripture, and God Almighty promised my reward will come from Him who is just and fair and see and knows everything every little human being on this earth does, saved and unsaved.
The “universal church” of our time, is being man-made and structured according to the new world order, the new world wide church of God. so it doesn’t have the same meaning as the ‘universal’ in the Nicene Creed.
So there –
I believe a LOOOOONNNNNG discussion is coming your way DTW. It will be interesting to follow …
Cecilia
That is the answer.
Mary interwoven into even the tiniest cracks of Catholicism.
I know that the argument of, ‘what about those charismatic catholics’ is sure to crop up. I can’t wait…. lol
I hope to have my hands on a little book that is rather old and moth eaten by this Sunday re the catholic church and it’s history – I am going to scan for download . And that not one ounce of RC or C doctrine is Christian. Just because a branch off (catholic church) is less ceremonial, etc and whatever than the RCC does not make any difference to the underlying evils of their doctrine.
This book is not copyright, and was translated from Latin to English spelling out the terrible doctrine of the Catholic church. I am going to scan it and put it online for download. This information is so important. Can’t get away from the basic teachings of this diabolical religion, no matter how much one tries to sugar coat it.
There is a very very big difference between being a born again Christian and a Catholic ‘Christian’. This is why I did not put a 3rd option of ‘Not sure’ or ‘Maybe’.
C
No my book is by the Waldensians, not Jack Chick.
Thanks for that info never the less. Wil be beneficial to others who are confused.
Debs, have a look at http://www.chick.com/information/religions/catholicism/
cecilia
I think the book you’re referring to is “Smokescreens” by Jack T Chick. read online: http://www.chick.com/reading/books/153/153cont.asp
this is a very graphic book, not for the faint-hearted! it blows the smokescreens and veils the RCC has pulled over their most basic first laid down foundational doctrines and the evil works that followed from that.
many people in and out of that “church” will say often today that “they have changed”, but go to letters and speeches of EVERY pope up to now and they just re-affirm that the foundation has NOT changed, they just want to be find acceptable in the eyes of other religions. and what they don’t say is : they do this to draw others (back) into the Roman Catholic ‘church’.
cecilia
tell me how to place on this site a copy of the RCC cannons-(I have this)-it is self explanetary that they are apostate-and i believe that every servile catholic does not know or understand their own alegiance.Only when the man of sin arises will it be demanded of the wider congregation to bow and declare the belief as laid down by the cannons.
Eddie
What format is it in? If you can email it to me. I will upload it and place it as a link here on this website. But first, can I do this? It’s free to distribute? Can anyone read it? lol 😉 Gosh almost sound like I’m in the middle ages.
oh, might I say, Islam (the Muslims) are applying the same tactic : we are urged to compare the Bible with the Quran. in the meantime you’re reading the Quran, following like sheep the voice of a wolf, saying if you do this, you will understand them better.
RCC do the same. Go visit their “church”, see what they do. invite them to your house meetings, or visit theirs… so you can see they are ‘real christians’…. yeah well, in the meantime very subtly you are drawn in by their reasonings…..
cecilia
Deborah – I do not know allot about the Catholic faith but thanks to you and Cecilia im learning fast. What i do believe is that the Catholic church will be/already is the center of the One world religion.
I have a question. Why do all the higher archy in the Catholic church dress the way they do, also the same with the Russian orthodox?? what is the reason behind their dress codes??
Elmarie
>> I do not know allot about the Catholic faith but thanks to you and Cecilia im learning fast. What i do believe is that the Catholic church will be/already is the center of the One world religion.
YAY!
>> I have a question. Why do all the higher archy in the Catholic church dress the way they do, also the same with the Russian orthodox?? what is the reason behind their dress codes??
That is a very good question.
Anyone know the answer to that? I know that funny hat is shaped to represent some god… a fish like god. Oh gosh, it’s been a long day now I can’t remember the name. Will check.
I’m working on it to find out where it all originated. – the vestments that is those garments they wear
try not to focus on this please?! nor on the RCC teachings, doctrines, uses, etc. We should focus on this: to get to know God’s Word, so we will be able to discern when and if anything is not according to God’s Word.
When we have the truth of God’s Word in our hearts, Holy Spirit immediately will let you discern it is wrong AND HE will teach you and guide you into all truth. HE will give you the answers – to your surprise you will later read someone else says it means that – and you will go – oh! thank You Father God – You are “awesome” indeed.
cecilia
C
Now that’s a great answer 🙂
Thank you Deborah & Cecilia.
Will just be interesting to know, im waiting, Cecilia
It is just great to have people like you who don’t and wont beat around the bush. That is so needed in these times of absolute deception we are living in. 1 Cor verses 14-16 especially comes to mind. This is where the Holy Spirit lead me to very early when I gave my live to God. These words will follow me always………..
RCC Cannons are a typed doc and is public info-will scan and e mail.
Why you need to know what and the why of clothing for e.g is that these very thing show and lead the way for you to know the truth.You don’t need to focus on it.They teach and preach with word but their signs and symbols show someting else.His hat is the “the fish head of babylon””son god”and has evolved in many forms -read catholic encyclophedia.It also contains in some designs the “all seeing eye”.Google “what sayth rome’or David Bray.
Eddy
Great stuff. I’ve actually been working on articles x 10 regarding Babylon – just taking the most important info and writing articles. I am still not finished, cos it’s been rather painstaking and I’ve actually drawn my own maps in photoshop (can you believe it…I am so pedantic ahah).
Also, I will try scan my little book today. Ever heard of the Waldensians? I hadn’t until I found this little book. And my goodness he explains the RCC church and how they the Waldensians were persecuted for hundreds of years because they refused to belong.
I’ve got so much to do and so little time… and on top of it I have a headache today. bleh.
See http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15527b.htm
Rcc is the most insidious movement on earth; thay are resposible and behinde every evil perpetrated and promoted. They Practice satanic ritual at the highest of their levels.The Cardinals around the world are the real and actual spiritual/political/military generals for e.g Cardinal Eagan is head of USA –
The subject is vast – Start at ‘Vatican assasins”
from these sources one gets some of the best info on the Babylonian system, still existing to our day:
The Two Babylons – by Alexander Hislop
http://reluctant-messenger.com/2-babylons.htm
http://religionstinks.xanga.com/669573192/item/
from here all can do further research with names and/or links given.
Let me just share WHY I don’t want to go into these things again, trying to answer questions, etc.
when I was nineteen, I was studying nursing. classes in day, work at night. being rejected (at that phase in my life) by my parents and family, I felt a deep rooted call to the spiritual. the only time I could go to church was 3 or 7 o’clock in the morning. (that’s when my night-shift ended). the only “church” open that time, was a RCC (opened 24h pd). I would go in there and drink in the silence. No body disturbed me, no body questioned me. (They do that! they wait for YOU to make the move). sometimes I would ask permission to play the organ (I love music!). they would allow me. they “served” me. gave me space to be me. the end of my first year I decided to become a nun. (aaaaa, DTW, you’re shocked?). But I did’nt. God’s hand of protection was upon me. I was “a member” of the Dutch Reformed Church still, then. The DRC is one of the churches which is called the “sister’s churches”.
One night in a dream the Lord spoke to me (the Bible says He will do that when people don’t listen to the obvious!)
Scripture God gave ME way back then: Job 33:14-16 (King James Version)
14For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not.
15In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;
16Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,
I heard in my sleep this question: if the DRC is called “sister”, who is the “mother”?
I awoke with this question in my mind + heart. Went to the RCC (as usual), and right there in the pew where I went to sit, was a little leaflet someone left there: “The Mother of all churches”. Chocked, horrified, deserted again!, I fled out that building. Ever since then never again will I call it a ‘church’. It took me YEARS to cut myself from the “silent influence” it had on me; the knee-bend, the sitting for hours in front of the immages (even that of “jesus”)!. The music that goes down into your soul.
almost 29 years back, I had to cut all roots with the “sister” too! that was not so hard, she didn’t care for me, the mother did! and alas! I was FREE! then the charismatic + pentecostal got ahold of me – and only when I read this blog, Father God in His grace and mercy led me back to “soli scriptura” – ONLY THE WORD OF GOD.
The mentioned 2 sites got more than all those who want to know about the RCC need. I step away from this one now, unless as in a short comment.
thanks Debs! lets keep standing then…
cecilia
C
Wow… I am speechless (in a good way). I really am speechless. I am glad you spoke about this. Really. Thank you and all we can do is that Jesus Christ our Saviour and King of Kings, Lord of Lords, the ONLY begotten Son of God daily for everything He does for His children. I am in awe on a daily basis of how He looks after my husband and I and how He loves us, those who LOVE HIM and obey His WORD.
Thanks C. 59 days to go. Yes I think last time I said 55 days to do. I lost a week somewhere that week. haha
[Edited 21 Dec 2009. Elmarie. Thanks for highlighting that, I have posted this as a complete article: Allah is a Translation for God
Oh my. I was having a look through this thread. not much happening here…and its SOLA scriptura, not SOLI scriptura. If one cannot get the Latin right, then I wonder. It reminds me of the certificates printed by our Band. Instead of NMMM (Nelson Mandela Metroppolitan Municipality) its was NNMM. Um…spell check anyone?
Sir Bunny Trails, I have not forgotten you although I have been silent. Other fish to fry and plates to spin. Keep checking back. I will get back to you with a doctrinal statement of what most fundamental Christians believe. We can take it from there if you don’t mind. Also, please check out the new thread on the Apparition of Christ to see my post there.
Grace and peace!
Bunny Trails, should I say thank you for correcting a spelling mistake (fast fingers)? so now all readers know it is SOLA SCRIPTURA. so what’s your say on this article topic?
I think there are some Catholics who are saved. I am not 100% sure.
To be blunt – Mother Church tells you to do things you don’t have to do (which won’t ruin your soul – but why would you and it distorts Christianity) and they tell you to do things you are not supposed to do. What God will do with that part upon death I have no clue. When the Bible wasn’t available – it might have been more excusable. They have a copy and I was raised Roman Catholic – No they were very nice and never said one cross word to me. I was just a bored kid and not into all that.
That being said; I would assume that there are many wonderful Catholics who really do believe that Jesus was God’s son and he died for our sins and I think basically live out what God taught us to do pretty well. The praying to dead people and that veneration of Mary (which should have never happened) and other things they believe – I don’t know.
My suggestion – Stay the (word edited out) away from that Church. If you go up to the Vatican it is a literal den of corruption. No – Tragic but true. I have done my research and Malachi Martin a former Jesuit wrote Windswept Houses about the Satanic Worship that he purported goes on up there. I have personal knowledge of one person the church has been after for years and it goes back up to the papacy. They also seem to have a very corrupt banking system that launders money and dead bankers, an intelligence arm what the (word edited out) is the church doing with a CIA), reports of dead bodies at Churches ect. Children – (word edited out) this looks like child sacrifice, the pedophilia which looks like condoned by the Vatican the list of atrocities goes on and on. I can document all this – it looks that bad. They are a seduced bride – Corrupted bye the world and the political system. I know they want me to bow to Rome. To be blunt; the Pope and I aren’t getting along very well.
Why would a church be one of the richest institutions on earth? So much for giving it all up for Christ. OK – They want you too; they just aren’t going to play by those rules.
Same game different time – Solomon was right there is nothing new under the sun.
I am not sure – Just stay the (word edited out) away from that (word edited out) mess and never, never put a dime in the collection basket to support that corrupt mess.
If you are unaware like many Catholics are about the den of corruption that Vatican is and you stay that is one thing; but when you know and stay; I am not God but I can’t see that as anything but inexcusable.
I am not God to judge; but I would never go there.
YOU WERE WARNED
Admin (Some words used edited out)
Vicky
1) Do you know what salvation means?
2) How can one be saved and remain in a false religion at the same time?
Come on Bunny Trails – Are you going to castigate BL for a typppo!